Western Child Soldiers

[Carbizene]

There is a practice in Western Society to take Children of the wealthy aged 12 or even less away from home and place them in Institutions where they are indoctrinated in Calvanist values and Militarised.

[Enki]

Yea we used to call the New Mexico Military Institute, NMMI, Nine Million Marching Idiots.

[Typhoon]

Are high schools -> quasi-military academies currently a US phenomenon?

I remember seeing ads for such institutions in the back of old National Geographics.

[Enki]

Are high schools -> quasi-military academies currently a US phenomenon?

I remember seeing ads for such institutions in the back of old National Geographics.

They are not anything new.

It was basically where you sent your kid if your kid was an asshole and you were a shitty parent.

[Azrael]

My father and my uncle spent a year at a military boarding school. My grandparents wanted to get them out of Cuba (everyone knew an invasion was coming) and it was the only school they could afford. It really sucked, especially since my father had a thick accent and my uncle didn't know English. And they didn't know if they would ever see their parents again, if their father would get tortured to death or executed, etc.

For a while the Castro regime thought that my grandfather was in the CIA. Why? Who knows. My grandfather paid the price and the U.S. has never paid us 1c for it. Later on, once my grandparents got out, one of my grandfather's friends who was still in Cuba found out that the USSR was setting up missiles. He made careful notes and passed them on to my grandfather. He informed the US government. That's how the Cuban missile crisis started. Because the intelligence community is a joke, his friend got caught and spent decades in prison. One of the greatest intelligence coups of the century and not 1c for that either. And we were broke back then.

[monster_gardener]

My father and my uncle spent a year at a military boarding school. My grandparents wanted to get them out of Cuba (everyone knew an invasion was coming) and it was the only school they could afford. It really sucked, especially since my father had a thick accent and my uncle didn't know English. And they didn't know if they would ever see their parents again, if their father would get tortured to death or executed, etc.

For a while the Castro regime thought that my grandfather was in the CIA. Why? Who knows. My grandfather paid the price and the U.S. has never paid us 1c for it. Later on, once my grandparents got out, one of my grandfather's friends who was still in Cuba found out that the USSR was setting up missiles. He made careful notes and passed them on to my grandfather. He informed the US government. That's how the Cuban missile crisis started. Because the intelligence community is a joke, his friend got caught and spent decades in prison. One of the greatest intelligence coups of the century and not 1c for that either. And we were broke back then.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azrael.

Thank you also for your family's service to America.

My extended family includes Cubanos...........

Cuban Missile Crisis.......... That was a close one.......... Who knows what would have happened if anything had been different..........

Please tell more.........

I may be naive but has your family contacted any likely members of Congress.... .... Might be able to get a private compensation bill or at least some recognition....... sometimes have to wait till the S.O.Bs who would be embarrassed are out of office or have died out......

Remembering what happened to the Captain of the Indianapolis......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indian ... he_sinking

[Ibrahim]

Schemes for militarizing the youth are as old as civilization, and the modern versions trace their roots back to Baden-Powell and other late Victorians. Their desirability is debatable, but in no case should they be compared to what goes on in the Congo. Some kid signing up for the air cadets in a far cry from being pulled from his bed and forced to murder his family.


What might be comparable are Western examples of children being drafted into ongoing wars, as occurred in isolated cases during the American Civil War, Napoleonic wars, and in even greater numbers as you move backwards through European history. IIRC Roman citizens under the Republic were required to serve the legions as Velites as young as 13.

[Marcus]

. . indoctrinated in Calvanist values . .

What exactly are "Calvinist" values?

[Carbizene]

All forms of pleasure that make life enjoyable are evil and life is to be lived in preparation for death, which is the real life.

[Carbizene]

Schemes for militarizing the youth are as old as civilization, and the modern versions trace their roots back to Baden-Powell and other late Victorians. Their desirability is debatable, but in no case should they be compared to what goes on in the Congo. Some kid signing up for the air cadets in a far cry from being pulled from his bed and forced to murder his family.


What might be comparable are Western examples of children being drafted into ongoing wars, as occurred in isolated cases during the American Civil War, Napoleonic wars, and in even greater numbers as you move backwards through European history. IIRC Roman citizens under the Republic were required to serve the legions as Velites as young as 13.

The one clear thought of my future I was left wth after attending boarding school from age 12 was "oh well at least I'll be good for the Army", it has taken me 25 years to rid myself entirely of that perversion, others were not so lucky.

Leaving parents at age 12 causes a biological break in the relationship between child and parents, essentially killing the bonds that people take for granted. So while no act of murder is demanded, the simple fact is that the child no longer has parents to murder, just strangers who rejected him whom it is impossible to relate to in a normal manor as the filial pathways formed in the brain during the developmental years of the brain cannot be superimposed at a later date. So a bloody violent act has been replaced by a psychologicaly violent act making it easier to stomach and easier to sell.

Interestingly Psychological abuse has no punishment under the Law if done by a Abrahamic Institution, I have been speaking with a Lawyer and I have no recourse to Justice as the crime is not considered significant enough to overturn the statute of limitations.

[Marcus]

All forms of pleasure that make life enjoyable are evil and life is to be lived in preparation for death, which is the real life.

Pure bullsh*t. References, please . .

[Carbizene]

All forms of pleasure that make life enjoyable are evil and life is to be lived in preparation for death, which is the real life.

Pure bullsh*t. References, please . .

Don't need to, I grew up in a Institution that was based on Calvanist (Protestant) values and know it to a depth that you never will, unless you lived as I did.

So while you think you understand Calvanism, you don't know lavender about the reality of it unless you've seen it in it's most brutal, pure form.

There is an interesting twist in this perversion, if I tell my parents the truth of the situation it destroys what is left of the bond developed pre age 12, thus making it a win win situation for the followers of Abraham the child sacrificer, it is no accident Abrahamic childeren are taken at age 12, the same age as Abrahams son was sacrificed.

[Marcus]

All forms of pleasure that make life enjoyable are evil and life is to be lived in preparation for death, which is the real life.

Pure bullsh*t. References, please . .

Don't need to, I lived in a Institution that was based on Calvanist (Protestant) values and know it to a depth that you never will, unless you lived as I did.

So while you think you understand Calvanism, you don't know lavender about the reality of it unless you've seen it in it's most brutal, pure form.

Well, all that's fine and good but nothing other than more hot air without references or verifiable proof. Sorry . .

Yer paintin' with a pretty wide brush there, partner . . you talking about classic Calvinism or some aberration of it? You owe us more than "Don't need to" after such wild-eyed accusations.

[Carbizene]

What bit about taking a child at age twelve and denying love and affection needs to be codified as criminal?

I have proof I was taken, the only evidence needed.

[Marcus]

What bit about taking a child at age twelve and denying love and affection needs to be codified as criminal?

If you're talking to me, you'll have to supply a reference . . in Calvin's Institutes maybe? New one on me . . sorry . .

[Marcus]

What bit about taking a child at age twelve and denying love and affection needs to be codified as criminal?

I have proof I was taken, the only evidence needed.

You may well have been "taken" for all I know. But to blame whatever happened to you on Calvinism demands references. Other than that, it is what it is, nothing more.

[Carbizene]

Yer paintin' with a pretty wide brush there, partner . . you talking about classic Calvinism or some aberration of it? You owe us more than "Don't need to" after such wild-eyed accusations.

An ideology is only as real in how it effects people lives.

I'm talking about Calvanism 101, beyond all the different plans, perhaps summed up best by this:



Calvanist building

This is what I grew up in, no room for privacy, joy, emotion, love or any of the things that make a human, human. The cold banality of death always present.

[Marcus]

An ideology is only as real in how it effects people lives.

I'm talking about Calvanism 101, . .

More empty BS. Blaming Calvinism for whatever happened to you is like blaming the Roman Catholic Magisterium for pedophile priests.

Try again . .

[Carbizene]

yeah right..so Nazism was not responsible for the Holocaust?

you are exhibiting Apologism A-grade, denying the prevalent ideology has influence.

[Ibrahim]

Schemes for militarizing the youth are as old as civilization, and the modern versions trace their roots back to Baden-Powell and other late Victorians. Their desirability is debatable, but in no case should they be compared to what goes on in the Congo. Some kid signing up for the air cadets in a far cry from being pulled from his bed and forced to murder his family.


What might be comparable are Western examples of children being drafted into ongoing wars, as occurred in isolated cases during the American Civil War, Napoleonic wars, and in even greater numbers as you move backwards through European history. IIRC Roman citizens under the Republic were required to serve the legions as Velites as young as 13.

The one clear thought of my future I was left wth after attending boarding school from age 12 was "oh well at least I'll be good for the Army", it has taken me 25 years to rid myself entirely of that perversion, others were not so lucky.

Leaving parents at age 12 causes a biological break in the relationship between child and parents, essentially killing the bonds that people take for granted. So while no act of murder is demanded, the simple fact is that the child no longer has parents to murder, just strangers who rejected him whom it is impossible to relate to in a normal manor as the filial pathways formed in the brain during the developmental years of the brain cannot be superimposed at a later date. So a bloody violent act has been replaced by a psychologicaly violent act making it easier to stomach and easier to sell.

Interestingly Psychological abuse has no punishment under the Law if done by a Abrahamic Institution, I have been speaking with a Lawyer and I have no recourse to Justice as the crime is not considered significant enough to overturn the statute of limitations.

I'm very open to the idea that boarding schools, military schools, and other methods of indoctrinating or militarizing children are harmful. I only contend that what happens in the Congo is on another order of magnitude. Two things may both be bad, but not necessarily equally bad.

[Ibrahim]

An ideology is only as real in how it effects people lives.

I'm talking about Calvanism 101, . .

More empty BS. Blaming Calvinism for whatever happened to you is like blaming the Roman Catholic Magisterium for pedophile priests.

Try again . .

It seems like a reasonable thing to do would be to blame an institution but not necessarily an abstract theology. That is to say "Calvinism" might not be responsible for anything specifically, but the Calvinist Church of Uzbekiekikeistan, if it ran a school where abuses took place, could be blamed.

To use your Catholic example, it seems unreasonable to blame Catholicism for abusive priests, but blaming the Vatican for concealing them is quite reasonable, indeed it may be a moral imperative.

[noddy]

one of the biggest disconnects in political worldview at the moment is this issue.

one side says violence is taught and thusly is a cycle that can be broken provided you dont expose your kiddies to it while the other side says violence is instinctual and builtin and you need to be taught it, to control it.

i tend to the latter viewpoint but only when the nuances are towards "control" of your inner violence rather than cliche extreme of celebrating or denying it.

[monster_gardener]

All forms of pleasure that make life enjoyable are evil and life is to be lived in preparation for death, which is the real life.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

My sympathy for abuse that you suffered in an "allegedly" Christian/Calvinist environment.......

Remembering a Bumper Stick prayer: "Jesus! Please protect me from your follower/disciples......



My experience was more fortunate, Praise G_d.

There were restrictions and discipline but my parents tried to do their best for all of us/uz kids...... and sometimes that & we kidz were difficult.

I have attended both Calvinist and non Calvinist churches.....

Have found that sometimes the Calvinists are more fun loving than the non Calvinist

Remembering picnics, dances and a sermon where the minister endorsed wine at a very Calvinist Predestination Presbyterian Church.......

I am not a true Calvinist

Despite my agreement with that church on fun stuff, I did not join because I believe to some degree in free will... or have the illusion that I do...

Not saying all Calvinsts are nice like that Presby Church........ You know that already.....


IMVHO Calvinist Christian Reconstructionists/Dominionists like "Scary" Gary North are VERY dangerous... Way too near the halls of power...***


Think the problem boils down to the people themselves.......

Conversion is supposed to transform for the better........ sometimes it does....... though sometimes it is slow.........****

Even so........

Often religious folk become control freaks.......... *

Happened here in Early Uz history with "Blue Laws" which did protect US/uz from 7 day work week exploitation from the Man** but the freaks got silly......... Rules like "No one may cross a river on Sunday/the Sabbath except an authorized clergyman."

Laws are gone now which IMVHO is a very good thing. We have more freedom now ...and more freedom to exploit each other & ourselves...

To quote Ned, "Such is life".........


*Not just a religious phenomena: happens a LOT with Neighborhood Associations ......... Want to tell you what size flag you can fly and much much more....... I avoid them like the plague......... But without them, your neighbor may have 2 rusted out cars on cinder blocks in the overgrown front yard.......... Have fun trying to sell your house for what you paid for it....... pre-bubble ....

I still choose freedom as long as what chemicals neighbor uses stay on his side of the fence.....

And park my rusty truck in the backyard ....... What color is a redneck's truck? Bondo!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondo_%28putty%29

**Who is often us/uz too

*** Want to enact the OT/Tanakh as law of the Land.........Death penalty for blasphemy, apostasy, disobedience to parents, fornication etc. Are at least as bad as Salafi Muslims

VERY Important read for Uz........ Hope you don't have them in Oz..........

http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/i ... singlepage

**** It does slow me down some which usually is good.........

[Demon of Undoing]

Expecting to be a child much past 13 or so, in my estimation, is asking to be spoiled. If raised properly, you should be ready to go into the final level of your learning how to be a functioning carbon unit- in another two to three years, I expect them to be able to do most anything an adult can do.

Now, as to whether military schools and religious instruction is abuse, well, f- me. Everything is abuse nowadays. Why not.

[Ibrahim]

Expecting to be a child much past 13 or so, in my estimation, is asking to be spoiled. If raised properly, you should be ready to go into the final level of your learning how to be a functioning carbon unit- in another two to three years, I expect them to be able to do most anything an adult can do.

There is a long social tradition to support what you are saying, but biologically speaking the human body and more importantly mind are not finished developing until the late teens at best. At least if you trust a bunch of scientists.

So in light of new discoveries, and because the Etruscans aren't looming at the borders waiting to burn down our temples, it might be reasonable to adjust our view of appropriate ages for military service and indoctrination (and largely we have). Surely that's not the same as calling it "abuse" when every team in the junior soccer tournament doesn't get a trophy.