France

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

We American Catholics will be contributing, I know that much.

[noddy]

[Simple Minded]

We American Catholics will be contributing, I know that much.

I've heard that $640 million from charitable givers has already been pledged. And that the renovation work at Notre Dame was part of an ongoing $175 million, 30 year project. Pretty amazing project.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

We American Catholics will be contributing, I know that much.

I've heard that $640 million from charitable givers has already been pledged. And that the renovation work at Notre Dame was part of an ongoing $175 million, 30 year project. Pretty amazing project.

That latter project is what I had in mind. A number of people will pay to restore it over the upcoming decades, even before France searches for spare change.

The question is, how much politicking will be getting in the way?

Tangentially,

Macron wants it done in 5 years [or so I've read, in English sources] but realistically, it will be a decade or centuries long project. They are still working Cologne's Cathedral from WWII damage. That's 80 years right there.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I was just reading an article about how it will never be the same. While certainly true my own priority of irreplaceable-ness goes

--the relics
--the artwork
--and then the building architecture and accoutrements.

I totally understand that is not the universal priority (or even the order where the money will go) but as distressing as it is, I'm more concerned about finding out if the relics of Saint Denis and Saint Genevieve are okay [as they are still unaccounted for] than whether or not the 800 year old pipes on the organ are damaged.

On that front, one of the thorns from the crown has certainly gone up in flames as it was in the spire. One is buried with Denis and Genevieve and so still up in the air. But otherwise, the most important objects-- the crown of thorns, the nail&piece of the cross, Saint Louis's tunic; were rescued.

And the most important pieces of the artwork seem okay. The exceptions being the Visitation which may have suffered damaged and four of the 13 Mays paintings are damaged-- though perhaps not beyond repair.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

And since it was so much fun the first time, a man allegedly decided to recreate the Notre Dame fire in Saint Patrick's Cathedral last night. He was caught carrying two cans of gasoline, two cans of lighter fluid and two lighters into the NYC cathedral.

Man Arrested After Walking Into St. Patrick's Cathedral With Gas Cans

Says his car broke down and he was merely strolling through the church as a shortcut.

It's weird what gets copycatted and what doesn't.

[Simple Minded]

And since it was so much fun the first time, a man allegedly decided to recreate the Notre Dame fire in Saint Patrick's Cathedral last night. He was caught carrying two cans of gasoline, two cans of lighter fluid and two lighters into the NYC cathedral.

Man Arrested After Walking Into St. Patrick's Cathedral With Gas Cans

Says his car broke down and he was merely strolling through the church as a shortcut.

It's weird what gets copycatted and what doesn't.

Humans. People from NJ don't like people in NYC much, do they?

[noddy]

I was just reading an article about how it will never be the same. While certainly true my own priority of irreplaceable-ness goes

--the relics
--the artwork
--and then the building architecture and accoutrements.

I totally understand that is not the universal priority (or even the order where the money will go) but as distressing as it is, I'm more concerned about finding out if the relics of Saint Denis and Saint Genevieve are okay [as they are still unaccounted for] than whether or not the 800 year old pipes on the organ are damaged.

On that front, one of the thorns from the crown has certainly gone up in flames as it was in the spire. One is buried with Denis and Genevieve and so still up in the air. But otherwise, the most important objects-- the crown of thorns, the nail&piece of the cross, Saint Louis's tunic; were rescued.

And the most important pieces of the artwork seem okay. The exceptions being the Visitation which may have suffered damaged and four of the 13 Mays paintings are damaged-- though perhaps not beyond repair.

in a thousand years time the patchwork of replacments on a 2000 year old building will be part of its story anyway.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I was just reading an article about how it will never be the same. While certainly true my own priority of irreplaceable-ness goes

--the relics
--the artwork
--and then the building architecture and accoutrements.

I totally understand that is not the universal priority (or even the order where the money will go) but as distressing as it is, I'm more concerned about finding out if the relics of Saint Denis and Saint Genevieve are okay [as they are still unaccounted for] than whether or not the 800 year old pipes on the organ are damaged.

On that front, one of the thorns from the crown has certainly gone up in flames as it was in the spire. One is buried with Denis and Genevieve and so still up in the air. But otherwise, the most important objects-- the crown of thorns, the nail&piece of the cross, Saint Louis's tunic; were rescued.

And the most important pieces of the artwork seem okay. The exceptions being the Visitation which may have suffered damaged and four of the 13 Mays paintings are damaged-- though perhaps not beyond repair.

in a thousand years time the patchwork of replacments on a 2000 year old building will be part of its story anyway.

Right- that's my line of thinking.

What spurred the initial post was an editorial I read in a local paper about how "it'll never be the same," and it got me to thinking, "what is?" That editorial and others, with what are (sometimes rude) extreme views about the building, don't make a whole lotta sense to me.

The editorial falls into the one extreme of characterizing the building almost as if it was this hermetically sealed object from the medieval period. It's a preposterous stance, it has had extensive work done over the centuries as any building; and while not to this extent, it's been damaged before and been added to (like the un-ancient and now gone, spire).

------------------------------------

When I went into the crypt at Saint Paul's, they had a large replica model of the original destroyed in the great fire of London. I imagine it's as close as anyone can reason as to what it exactly looked like with the information available. But even though not a stone remains from the original (as far as I'm aware); it remains a part of the story, as do the buildings which proceeded the gothic one. A Saint Paul's has been there now for 1400 years.

Looking for a picture of the Old Saint Paul model, I went to wiki and found this about a (much less great) fire in 1561:

On 4 June 1561 the spire caught fire and crashed through the nave roof. According to a newsheet published days after the fire, the cause was a lightning strike.[46] In 1753, David Henry, a writer for The Gentleman's Magazine, revived a rumour in his Historical description of St. Paul's Cathedral, writing that a plumber had "confessed on his death bed" that he had "left a pan of coals and other fuel in the tower when he went to dinner."[47] However, the number of contemporary eyewitnesses to the storm and a subsequent investigation appears to contradict this.[46]

Whatever the cause, the subsequent conflagration was hot enough to melt the cathedral's bells and the lead covering the wooden spire "poured down like lava upon the roof", destroying it.[11][48] This event was taken by both Protestants and Catholics as a sign of God's displeasure at the other faction's actions.[48] Queen Elizabeth contributed towards the cost of repairs and the Bishop of London Edmund Grindal gave £1200, although the spire was never rebuilt.[48] The repair work on the nave roof was sub-standard, and only fifty years after the rebuilding was in a dangerous condition.[49]

It should be filed under "the more things change"

-accidental fire takes down spire and roof
-rumors and paranoia spread along factional lines
-the political response leads to substandard work

hopefully the last bit doesn't repeat

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

And since it was so much fun the first time, a man allegedly decided to recreate the Notre Dame fire in Saint Patrick's Cathedral last night. He was caught carrying two cans of gasoline, two cans of lighter fluid and two lighters into the NYC cathedral.

Man Arrested After Walking Into St. Patrick's Cathedral With Gas Cans

Says his car broke down and he was merely strolling through the church as a shortcut.

It's weird what gets copycatted and what doesn't.

Humans. People from NJ don't like people in NYC much, do they?

As I'm sure you are aware, New Jersey is populated by a strange people.

[Simple Minded]

in a thousand years time the patchwork of replacments on a 2000 year old building will be part of its story anyway.

Right- that's my line of thinking.

What spurred the initial post was an editorial I read in a local paper about how "it'll never be the same," and it got me to thinking, "what is?" That editorial and others, with what are (sometimes rude) extreme views about the building, don't make a whole lotta sense to me.

The editorial falls into the one extreme of characterizing the building almost as if it was this hermetically sealed object from the medieval period. It's a preposterous stance, it has had extensive work done over the centuries as any building; and while not to this extent, it's been damaged before and been added to (like the un-ancient and now gone, spire).

------------------------------------

It should be filed under "the more things change"

-accidental fire takes down spire and roof
-rumors and paranoia spread along factional lines
-the political response leads to substandard work

hopefully the last bit doesn't repeat

The thought that always pops into my mind when I see these grand, expensive monuments built by religious institutions is "Why aren't you guys gathering and worshipping in inexpensive Quonset huts, and giving all the money you raised for the expensive building projects to poor people? Wouldn't that be more in line with practicing the ideals you preach? Screw the fancy building, art treasures, and gold chalices, go look at nature if you want to be impressed."

Kinda like when the Pope criticizes Trump about the building a border wall, prior to the Pope tearing down the wall around Vatican City.

yep, that's why they call me Simple Minded. I'm sure I've got a special place in hell waiting for me. or at least that's what I've been told.

[Simple Minded]

As I'm sure you are aware, New Jersey is populated by a strange people.

How do you know you are in the house of an older, Italian, Roman Catholic in NYC?
Hanging on the wall between the picture of Jesus and the picture of the Virgin Mary, there is a picture of Frank Sinatra!

[Mr. Perfect]

When you tour enough European castles of enough vintage, massive fires are ubiquitous at some point in their history. Often times people just keep plugging along and the new becomes old.

[Typhoon]

Sky | A timeline of Islamic terrorist attacks in France

[Typhoon]

The Spectator | French republicanism confounds American progressives

Can an entire country sue for libel? If so, France would have a strong suit against swathes of the American left. The US progressive movement, including the New York Times and Washington Post, has turned on la Republique over its citizens’ habit of getting themselves murdered by Islamists. Most recently, this has included Samuel Paty, a teacher beheaded in the street for showing his students cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, and three people murdered in a church in Nice. In response, French President Emmanuel Macron has proposed stricter regulations for mosque-financing and an end to home-schooling. And in response to this, much of the American left has lost its mind. I wrote about the new American Francophobia at the start of the month, but the situation has only deteriorated since then.

Amnesty International charges that Macron and his government have ‘doubled down on their perpetual smear campaign against French Muslims’. A news article in the New York Times tells us the French government has come under fire ‘for actions and statements that have risked conflating ordinary French Muslims with people accused of extremism’. Another Times piece opines that Macron ‘has every interest in flexing his antiterrorism muscles in public’ and was ‘benefiting from public outrage and nationalism in the wake of the killings’. The Times also considers Macron’s response to the terrorist attacks ‘aggressive’ and questions whether his objections to US media misrepresentations is ‘a little Trumpian’.

[Mr. Perfect]

Anyone keeping track of Le Pen. If she wins it’s endless popcorn time.

I’m working in a bumper sticker, “When you lose an election and you conclude that Democracy has ended, you are the actual enemy of Democracy”. Something like that

[Typhoon]

Anyone keeping track of Le Pen. If she wins it’s endless popcorn time.

I’m working in a bumper sticker, “When you lose an election and you conclude that Democracy has ended, you are the actual enemy of Democracy”. Something like that

France 24 | French President Emmanuel Macron will face the far right’s Marine Le Pen in a presidential run-off on April 24 after leading the first round on Sunday with 27.6% of the vote to Le Pen's 23.0%, according to an Ipsos exit poll.

So both are now busy courting the 49.4% of the votes who voted for another candidate in the 1st round.

I like the two round voting system.

[noddy]

I’m working in a bumper sticker,

you dont say.

I like the two round voting system.

australia simplifies this process by asking you to rank them in order when you do your original vote, rather than vote multiple times.

they keep discarding the bottom votes and switching to the preferences until someone has properly won.


----

as for France, its the same bind many of us have - globalist neo liberal snobbery versus angry retro nationalism.

.. while 50% of the population wishes for something else.

a right wing, nationalist europe might be on russias side for now, im not super convinced it stays that way.

[Heracleum Persicum]

a right wing, nationalist europe might be on russias side for now, im not super convinced it stays that way.

This nothing to do with right or left wing in Europe or Nationalist or liberal wing of Europe.


Issue at hand for Europe is, whether, in coming "New World Order", Europe's interest is same as America's.

That depends how the "New World Order" will look like.

In which team Europe will be ?

Is Europe going to be in Anglo team ?

Or Europe will be a pole of it's own competing with Anglo pole ?

Geography dictates that Europe's interest miles away from Anglo interest.. What are the common vital interest of France and Australia ? not many

Europe in Anglo team would mean Poles in "New World Order" (more and less) along "racial" lines.

Argument strongly speaks for itself that Europe should be it's own pole

If that the case, an European Russia be in Europe's team, pole, would very much strengthen Europe's Pole in "New World Order"

What is now happening, Anglos fooling Europe to go to war with one of their own, Russia. That weakens Europe, makes Anglos stronger.

Is this in Europe's interest ?

Europeans, European Joe, no fool, they reflecting and talking along the above lines.
.

[noddy]

pretty tricky those anglos.

dropping bombs on Ukrainian cities, trying to make the Russians look bad.

perfidious!

[Heracleum Persicum]

pretty tricky those anglos.

Last many yrs, US and Brits fought building North stream 2 .. Europe continued with North Stream 2

When Anglos saw they can not persuade Europe not to "integrate" European Russia into Europe, they pumped Ukraine with weapons, (Canadians) trained the (Nazi) Nationalist, brought in clown Zelenskyy, and started agitating Russia with Ukraine in NATO.

Anglos succeeded to ruin German economy within months, from a booming economy that absorbed and welcomed 1 m Syrian refugee as workforce in German industry that exported capital goods to China, Russia and India, to, now falling into deep recession. Am sure Germany will see millions unemployed as German exports to Russia, China will collapse.

German economy engine of Europe's economy.

If this continues, not Russia, neither China but Europe will be ruined.

All the above is what French electorate now looking at

And

odds are high they will vote Le Pen

.

[noddy]

so none of those countries can make decisions for themselves, they are just children being pushed around by the anglos ?

interesting.

anyway, the establishment is firing back against Le Pen.

https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/articl ... 23448.html

Marine Le Pen suspected of embezzlement of public money in a new report by the European Union Anti-Fraud Office
In an OLAF report revealed by "Mediapart", the candidate of the National Rally for the presidential election and three other former MEPs are accused of having embezzled nearly 620,000 euros of public money from the Parliament of Strasbourg.

probably wont amount to much.

[Heracleum Persicum]

so none of those countries can make decisions for themselves, they are just children being pushed around by the anglos ?

interesting.

That will show up April 24th

We will know whether French want European destiny decided in by US/Uk ,or , by Europeans

anyway, the establishment is firing back against Le Pen.

https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/articl ... 23448.html

Marine Le Pen suspected of embezzlement of public money in a new report by the European Union Anti-Fraud Office
In an OLAF report revealed by "Mediapart", the candidate of the National Rally for the presidential election and three other former MEPs are accused of having embezzled nearly 620,000 euros of public money from the Parliament of Strasbourg.

probably wont amount to much.

Anglos Sh*t mining as usual .. look for many of these BS next 9 days .. but French no fool

This a VITAL decision for French electorate .. France voting for Le Pen would start the process for all Europe to look into WTF is going on, the opposition to what is going on will feel free to come out freely. Am sure Olaf Scholz deep in heart pissed off with present situation and waiting for a window to open to say so

[Heracleum Persicum]

https://www.ft.com/content/c2a1f0eb-cb3 ... 6ff0974942

Patriot .png (1.53 MiB) Viewed 3285 times

p2.png (380.25 KiB) Viewed 3284 times

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

“Imagine we do nothing to prevent a situation in which the largest country in the world unites with the country with the largest population. We will allow the largest world producer of raw materials – Russia – to unite with the largest ‘factory’ of the planet – China – perhaps we will let them become the number one military force in the world. I think this is a big danger. Therefore, it is necessary to use diplomatic measures, when the war is over, when the peace agreement is signed, to avoid this unification, which can become a threat to us in the 21st century,” Le Pen said.

https://hiindia.com/2022/04/18/marine-l ... hina-bloc/

https://oneworld.press/?module=articles ... ew&id=2761

https://www.massnews.com/marine-le-pen- ... -analysis/

https://www.azerbaycan24.com/en/marine- ... hina-bloc/


funny .. this news is in all kinds of foreign media , but not in a single main American media