China

User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:48 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 am
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:15 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGUX4hubDmM

They Are Getting Desperate...


FT Front Page today

https://www.ft.com/content/4114454c-a92 ... 60b2b871c6



Finanacial Times .png


Let's see what "THEY" do this time in Wall Street when that thing hits the fan

This is the China Thread HP Seems like you are trolling again
.


My point is, Notion Chinese are now "desperate" when worldwide Real Estate frenzy coming crashing down, is not realizing this now a "global" trend and not only China.

And

What I am getting at is we can see now how China handles this .. and .. let us watch how West, America and Europe going to handle it

This nothing to do with "trolling", Doc

Lets see how West handles same problem.
.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12595
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: China

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:15 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:48 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 am
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:15 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGUX4hubDmM

They Are Getting Desperate...


FT Front Page today

https://www.ft.com/content/4114454c-a92 ... 60b2b871c6



Finanacial Times .png


Let's see what "THEY" do this time in Wall Street when that thing hits the fan

This is the China Thread HP Seems like you are trolling again
.


My point is, Notion Chinese are now "desperate" when worldwide Real Estate frenzy coming crashing down, is not realizing this now a "global" trend and not only China.

And

What I am getting at is we can see now how China handles this .. and .. let us watch how West, America and Europe going to handle it

This nothing to do with "trolling", Doc

Lets see how West handles same problem.
.
The Chinese situation is solely caused by the CCP, nothing to do with the west. Had the CCP not created a kleptocracy or allowed its average citizens invest in foreign markets the Chinese housing bubble would not have happened. In the west the problem is unaffordable housing. In China the problem is too affordable housing after it housing markets have crashed. China leads in this.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:36 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:15 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:48 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 am
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:15 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGUX4hubDmM



FT Front Page today

https://www.ft.com/content/4114454c-a92 ... 60b2b871c6



Finanacial Times .png


Let's see what "THEY" do this time in Wall Street when that thing hits the fan

This is the China Thread HP Seems like you are trolling again
.


My point is, Notion Chinese are now "desperate" when worldwide Real Estate frenzy coming crashing down, is not realizing this now a "global" trend and not only China.

And

What I am getting at is we can see now how China handles this .. and .. let us watch how West, America and Europe going to handle it

This nothing to do with "trolling", Doc

Lets see how West handles same problem.
.

The Chinese situation is solely caused by the CCP, nothing to do with the west.

Had the CCP not created a kleptocracy or allowed its average citizens invest in foreign markets the Chinese housing bubble would not have happened. In the west the problem is unaffordable housing.

In China the problem is too affordable housing after it housing markets have crashed. China leads in this.

.


In the West, specially North America, US and Canada, the authorities, the system, promoted residential housing as a "business" for Joe, Wealth generating by house prices going up .. that was orchestrated by cheap money mortgages.

Buying a house is like buying a car, is "consumption" .. first wealth must be earned in real "wealth creation", later that wealth consumed, like buying a car or a house.

House itself is not business and "wealth generator".

That lead to housing prices running away from fundamentals, individual earning.

As for West now the "partying" is over, and must compete in world marketplace, "System" decided to stop promoting "hot air economy", interest rates are up "and will stay up" for long long time.


Re China :

As I live in Vancouver, and know many Chinese, I was witnessing China's Real Estate action of last 30 yrs.

Chinese people looked at West and thought buying houses is "a business" and a "wealth creator", heavily speculating in housing market .. Many Chinese I know bought many condo in presale in Shanghai and flipped etc etc.

That lead to massive overbuilt


CCP thought West knows something that China does not, they followed Western model .. After US housing crash CCP knew Western model was a SCAM , and stopped that nonsense.

.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27435
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: China

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm
Doc wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:36 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:15 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:48 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 am



FT Front Page today

https://www.ft.com/content/4114454c-a92 ... 60b2b871c6



Finanacial Times .png


Let's see what "THEY" do this time in Wall Street when that thing hits the fan

This is the China Thread HP Seems like you are trolling again
.


My point is, Notion Chinese are now "desperate" when worldwide Real Estate frenzy coming crashing down, is not realizing this now a "global" trend and not only China.

And

What I am getting at is we can see now how China handles this .. and .. let us watch how West, America and Europe going to handle it

This nothing to do with "trolling", Doc

Lets see how West handles same problem.
.

The Chinese situation is solely caused by the CCP, nothing to do with the west.

Had the CCP not created a kleptocracy or allowed its average citizens invest in foreign markets the Chinese housing bubble would not have happened. In the west the problem is unaffordable housing.

In China the problem is too affordable housing after it housing markets have crashed. China leads in this.

.


In the West, specially North America, US and Canada, the authorities, the system, promoted residential housing as a "business" for Joe, Wealth generating by house prices going up .. that was orchestrated by cheap money mortgages.

Buying a house is like buying a car, is "consumption" .. first wealth must be earned in real "wealth creation", later that wealth consumed, like buying a car or a house.

House itself is not business and "wealth generator".

That lead to housing prices running away from fundamentals, individual earning.

As for West now the "partying" is over, and must compete in world marketplace, "System" decided to stop promoting "hot air economy", interest rates are up "and will stay up" for long long time.


Re China :

As I live in Vancouver, and know many Chinese, I was witnessing China's Real Estate action of last 30 yrs.

Chinese people looked at West and thought buying houses is "a business" and a "wealth creator", heavily speculating in housing market .. Many Chinese I know bought many condo in presale in Shanghai and flipped etc etc.

That lead to massive overbuilt


CCP thought West knows something that China does not, they followed Western model .. After US housing crash CCP knew Western model was a SCAM , and stopped that nonsense.

.
Typical 3rd world mentality, blaming the West for self-inflicted problems.

Rather, the structure of the PR China system guaranteed property speculation and overbuilding.
In PR China, where the government owns the land, localities almost never tax homeowners to support services like schools.
Cities rely instead on selling long-term leases to real estate developers.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12595
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: China

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm
Doc wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:36 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:15 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:48 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 am



FT Front Page today

https://www.ft.com/content/4114454c-a92 ... 60b2b871c6



Finanacial Times .png


Let's see what "THEY" do this time in Wall Street when that thing hits the fan

This is the China Thread HP Seems like you are trolling again
.


My point is, Notion Chinese are now "desperate" when worldwide Real Estate frenzy coming crashing down, is not realizing this now a "global" trend and not only China.

And

What I am getting at is we can see now how China handles this .. and .. let us watch how West, America and Europe going to handle it

This nothing to do with "trolling", Doc

Lets see how West handles same problem.
.

The Chinese situation is solely caused by the CCP, nothing to do with the west.

Had the CCP not created a kleptocracy or allowed its average citizens invest in foreign markets the Chinese housing bubble would not have happened. In the west the problem is unaffordable housing.

In China the problem is too affordable housing after it housing markets have crashed. China leads in this.

.


In the West, specially North America, US and Canada, the authorities, the system, promoted residential housing as a "business" for Joe, Wealth generating by house prices going up .. that was orchestrated by cheap money mortgages.

Buying a house is like buying a car, is "consumption" .. first wealth must be earned in real "wealth creation", later that wealth consumed, like buying a car or a house.

House itself is not business and "wealth generator".
Did you mean "not business and not a wealth generator"?
If so I agree.


That lead to housing prices running away from fundamentals, individual earning.

As for West now the "partying" is over, and must compete in world marketplace, "System" decided to stop promoting "hot air economy", interest rates are up "and will stay up" for long long time.


Re China :

As I live in Vancouver, and know many Chinese, I was witnessing China's Real Estate action of last 30 yrs.

Chinese people looked at West and thought buying houses is "a business" and a "wealth creator", heavily speculating in housing market .. Many Chinese I know bought many condo in presale in Shanghai and flipped etc etc.

That lead to massive overbuilt


CCP thought West knows something that China does not, they followed Western model .. After US housing crash CCP knew Western model was a SCAM , and stopped that nonsense.

.
Sales of condos in China are down 30% Not 100% And they are only down since 2020. Outside of Real estate the CCP only allows Chinese citizens to buy foreign bonds. No direct foreign investments otherwise.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:00 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm
In the West, specially North America, US and Canada, the authorities, the system, promoted residential housing as a "business" for Joe, Wealth generating by house prices going up .. that was orchestrated by cheap money mortgages.

Buying a house is like buying a car, is "consumption" .. first wealth must be earned in real "wealth creation", later that wealth consumed, like buying a car or a house.

House itself is not business and "wealth generator".

Did you mean "not business and not a wealth generator"?
If so I agree.

Yes, that is what I mean .. happy you too see that way


Doc wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:00 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm

Re China :

As I live in Vancouver, and know many Chinese, I was witnessing China's Real Estate action of last 30 yrs.

Chinese people looked at West and thought buying houses is "a business" and a "wealth creator", heavily speculating in housing market .. Many Chinese I know bought many condo in presale in Shanghai and flipped etc etc.

That lead to massive overbuilt


CCP thought West knows something that China does not, they followed Western model .. After US housing crash CCP knew Western model was a SCAM , and stopped that nonsense.

.
Sales of condos in China are down 30% Not 100% And they are only down since 2020. Outside of Real estate the CCP only allows Chinese citizens to buy foreign bonds. No direct foreign investments otherwise.


Sales of condo down because the "speculators" are out .. now people buy condo to live in.

.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12595
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: China

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:43 pm
Doc wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:00 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm
In the West, specially North America, US and Canada, the authorities, the system, promoted residential housing as a "business" for Joe, Wealth generating by house prices going up .. that was orchestrated by cheap money mortgages.

Buying a house is like buying a car, is "consumption" .. first wealth must be earned in real "wealth creation", later that wealth consumed, like buying a car or a house.

House itself is not business and "wealth generator".

Did you mean "not business and not a wealth generator"?
If so I agree.

Yes, that is what I mean .. happy you too see that way


Doc wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:00 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:41 pm

Re China :

As I live in Vancouver, and know many Chinese, I was witnessing China's Real Estate action of last 30 yrs.

Chinese people looked at West and thought buying houses is "a business" and a "wealth creator", heavily speculating in housing market .. Many Chinese I know bought many condo in presale in Shanghai and flipped etc etc.

That lead to massive overbuilt


CCP thought West knows something that China does not, they followed Western model .. After US housing crash CCP knew Western model was a SCAM , and stopped that nonsense.

.
Sales of condos in China are down 30% Not 100% And they are only down since 2020. Outside of Real estate the CCP only allows Chinese citizens to buy foreign bonds. No direct foreign investments otherwise.


Sales of condo down because the "speculators" are out .. now people buy condo to live in.

.
Last time I saw there were 64 million empty condos in China. With a 30% reduction in sales, I imagine that number has not gone down.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: POTUS Election 2024 | Here we go again . . .

Post by noddy »

when we try and enforce intellectual property patents on our computers with China, you also rubbish us - this is all nonsense and you know it, I dont think you even read what your write.

doesnt matter who does what, doesnt matter if america elects the greatest human since the dawn of time, an irian immigrant with a degree in poetry.

the endgame is 8 billion monkeys fighting for 3 billion monkeys worth of "good life", everything else is just "reasons"

the things you want from the west, happened 2 decades ago, you just seem to have missed the memo.

modern world is china and indias fault - europe gave up and even lets nazis bomb their borders, america is just tired and wornout.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: POTUS Election 2024 | Here we go again . . .

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

This might not belong here , but


US tax law says , as long as you have not sold a stock you own, there no tax on it.

What all rich people do, Bezos holding to his stocks in Amazon, borrowes agains it (not taxed) and spends.

All TAX FREE

The law should be changed to :

Any stock holding of a Public company, after 15 years holding, is deemed as sold and profit or loss Taxed

That would mean, Bezos can hold to his stocks as long as he likes, but after 15 years from date Amazon went IPO, he must pay capital gain/loss on stock he holds, no matter sold or not ..

This way US would have enough revenue to spend for infrastructure etc etc .. and lower interest rate as less government borrowing needed

In US rich don't pay taxes ...Warren Buffett and many Billionaires say so

Notion Rich people should not be taxed because they create business is BS


Look at the list of U$ Billionaire

Most of top billionaires "inherited" and do not create any business .. they "parasite"


https://www.forbes.com/profile/walton-1 ... 685526f3f8


Entrepreneurs who become Billionaires by creating big companies, they all, without exception, start poor, with no money

Those who inherit billions they "drag on the system" .. most of the time worthless brats


.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: POTUS Election 2024 | Here we go again . . .

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

noddy wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:00 am
when we try and enforce intellectual property patents on our computers with China, you also rubbish us - this is all nonsense and you know it, I dont think you even read what your write.

doesnt matter who does what, doesnt matter if america elects the greatest human since the dawn of time, an irian immigrant with a degree in poetry.

the endgame is 8 billion monkeys fighting for 3 billion monkeys worth of "good life", everything else is just "reasons"

the things you want from the west, happened 2 decades ago, you just seem to have missed the memo.

modern world is china and indias fault - europe gave up and even lets nazis bomb their borders, america is just tired and wornout.


I am big defender of "Intellectual property" rights .. Patents

but

"Intellectual property" does not include "ideas"

Idea of "EV" came from Musk .. Idea of "Smart Phone" came from Steve Jobs

"Smart Phone" is not "Intellectual property" .. but the Glass on the phone is "Corning" patent , that is "Intellectual property"

Because a smartphone combines many communications and computing technologies, as many as 250,000 patents may touch the device, according to estimates by RPX, a patent licensing company.”)

Chinese do not infringe on "Patents" .. Chinese smart phones makers pay all the patent involved as Apple iPhone would too.

Same with EV made by China .. all Western Patents are respected and paid for.

If China respects all Patents for EV, why confront Chinese EV export ?

.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 4:14 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:43 pm

Sales of condo down because the "speculators" are out .. now people buy condo to live in.

.

Last time I saw there were 64 million empty condos in China. With a 30% reduction in sales, I imagine that number has not gone down.

.



Speculators, inflated real demand by "qualified' buyers who had the income and can pay for a condo to live in .. that is why dramatic "overbuilt" happened .. now market back to "reality" .. what now will happen is, the "rental market" will absorb the empty condos, those empty condos will be rented, and rents will drop, a healthy development.

Similar happened when 2008 housing collapse happened in US .. Home owners who did not afford "owning their house" now renting same house from Blackrock.

The "64 million empty condos in China" am sure includes many "inhabited cities" that China built.

.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12595
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: China

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 5:59 pm
Doc wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 4:14 am
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:43 pm

Sales of condo down because the "speculators" are out .. now people buy condo to live in.

.

Last time I saw there were 64 million empty condos in China. With a 30% reduction in sales, I imagine that number has not gone down.

.



Speculators, inflated real demand by "qualified' buyers who had the income and can pay for a condo to live in .. that is why dramatic "overbuilt" happened .. now market back to "reality" .. what now will happen is, the "rental market" will absorb the empty condos, those empty condos will be rented, and rents will drop, a healthy development.

Similar happened when 2008 housing collapse happened in US .. Home owners who did not afford "owning their house" now renting same house from Blackrock.

The "64 million empty condos in China" am sure includes many "inhabited cities" that China built.

.
"empty condos" = Tofu Dregs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4wPOcYEdI
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3 ... e=homepage

Chinese investors struggle to hold on to property abroad as soaring rates, weak domestic economy make mortgages unaffordable

Chinese investors who have borrowed from the bank to buy a house abroad are contending with an economic slowdown at home and surging interest rates

In a growing number of cases they are having to sell their overseas property, unable to free up the funds to service higher mortgage repayments



Don't hold your breath

Interest rates will not come down, for a long long time ..

Capital was subsidizing the partying crowed .. now, the partying crowed will pay thought the nose

Still a lot of "easy money" around .. A lot of "Wealth Destruction" ahead

.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27435
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: PR China

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:27 am
noddy wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:00 am
when we try and enforce intellectual property patents on our computers with China, you also rubbish us - this is all nonsense and you know it, I dont think you even read what your write.

doesnt matter who does what, doesnt matter if america elects the greatest human since the dawn of time, an irian immigrant with a degree in poetry.

the endgame is 8 billion monkeys fighting for 3 billion monkeys worth of "good life", everything else is just "reasons"

the things you want from the west, happened 2 decades ago, you just seem to have missed the memo.

modern world is china and indias fault - europe gave up and even lets nazis bomb their borders, america is just tired and wornout.


I am big defender of "Intellectual property" rights .. Patents

but

"Intellectual property" does not include "ideas"

Idea of "EV" came from Musk .. Idea of "Smart Phone" came from Steve Jobs

"Smart Phone" is not "Intellectual property" .. but the Glass on the phone is "Corning" patent , that is "Intellectual property"

Because a smartphone combines many communications and computing technologies, as many as 250,000 patents may touch the device, according to estimates by RPX, a patent licensing company.”)

Chinese do not infringe on "Patents" .. Chinese smart phones makers pay all the patent involved as Apple iPhone would too.

Same with EV made by China .. all Western Patents are respected and paid for.

If China respects all Patents for EV, why confront Chinese EV export ?

.
Abject nonsense.
PR China is engaging in the greatest IP theft in history.

SAIS Review | How China’s Political System Discourages Innovation and Encourages IP Theft

The late, great American satirist P. J. O'Rourke made the succinct observation that after purchasing a pack of cigarettes, a bunch of PR Chinese street vendors tried to sell him cigarettes, but that no one thought of selling him a a pack of matches or a lighter.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: POTUS Election 2024 | Here we go again . . .

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Bloomberg
Huawei Ranks No. 5 in U.S. Patents



Huawei Technologies Co. is continuing to move up the list of companies getting the most U.S. patents, according to a new study of patenting activity that shows Chinese firms are increasingly responsible for a greater share of the world’s innovation.


:lol: come on .. @least get the fact before distorting them


If Chinese are as idi*t as you seem to believe, if so, why West afraid of China (and not of India :lol: ), why sanction China ? Why now even the legacy Chips are sanctioned for China ?
.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

LOL - true.jpeg
LOL - true.jpeg (24.16 KiB) Viewed 266 times
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Why many countries prefer China over the US
:lol:
Andrey Sushentsov is a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace




What is the difference between the Chinese view and Western ideology ?


The West, still, in the logic of the Cold War, relies on the thesis that there is a liberal-democratic centre in the world around North America and Western Europe. It has been united by common domestic principles and envisages a common foreign policy based on shared values. The aim has been to expand this nucleus and gradually include other regions of the world, “grinding them down” and eliminating impulses for strategic autonomy in the security sphere.

This line was exhaustively outlined in 1992 by Anthony Lake, National Security Advisor to the then President George Bush senior, who declared in his speech at Johns Hopkins University that the task of the US was to expand the footprint of liberal democracies, which would eventually include all regions of the world. Other American strategies were also based on this ideological foundation: the doctrine of the “war on terror”, the “transformation of the Greater Middle East”, the “freedom agenda”, and so on.

At some point, of course, the rigid concept of “Russia is on the wrong track” emerged; a consequence of the US refusal to understand the complexity of the world and the fact that different nations have an understanding of their place in the historical process and international relations that is independent of the West.

China, like Russia, confronted this assertive approach early on and realised that there are both valuable benefits to be gained from engagement with the West and significant problems and circumstances that make it difficult to feel comfortable building relationships on principles of equality. As a result, Chinese leaders have found it necessary to speak out about what the principles of a meaningful and stable coexistence should look like.

The question of leadership on the world stage also concerns the worldviews of Western and Chinese leaders, which are very different. The Western tradition, based on the principles of competition, primacy, individualism and the free market, implies that the “global game” is a long one, consisting of several rounds, each of which must be won.

The Eastern approach is different, and Western intellectual thought in the field of psychology only began to professionally deal with it rather late, in the 1930s and 1940s. Carl Gustav Jung was one of the first in the West to interpret Eastern thought on the question of human interaction. Jung saw it as an important source of creative energy, including for dealing with ‘spasmodic’ international political situations such as those before the world wars. He observed that the East placed less emphasis on the causal principle. For example, in one of his lectures Jung gave the following example. When a Westerner finds himself in a crowd of people and asks what they are doing here and why they are gathered together, an Easterner will look at them and ask: “What does all this mean? What does providence, which has brought me here, want to tell me?”

There can be no solidarity here - these are two fundamentally different ways of looking at the world.

Why is this important from an international policy perspective? The Eastern principle is reflected in Confucianism as the idea that noble people have a mutual understanding and have different views. The Chinese notion of “he” (peace, harmony and concord) is quite explicit in Beijing’s foreign policy strategy. However in the West, most experts look at things like a football match, searching for a kind of “winning strategy.” In China, they see them as natural laws of human interaction, comparable to the laws of physics. This Eastern wisdom contains a worldview that must be understood when interpreting the Chinese line in international relations.

China’s political and economic power is the natural product of a special way of life. The country has achieved its current success by following the path it has chosen for itself. The Chinese are proud of this and present their path as a workable construct for other nations and the international community as a

whole. But, importantly, they are doing so without pressure. The West presents itself to the world as an example to be emulated, with which all problems in relations will disappear. By contrast, the Chinese model does not imply this: it recognises the uniqueness of other peoples’ experiences and their distinct civilisational paths. And here there is considerable solidarity with the Russian concept of world order.

This approach was adopted as a doctrinal idea in a series of speeches and publications by former Foreign Minister Yevgeny Primakov and enshrined in the 1997 Russian-Chinese Declaration on the New World Order and Multipolarity. This is the first bilateral doctrinal document that exhaustively describes the Russian and, to a large extent, Chinese understanding of the principles on which the world should be built - the principles of equality, non-interference, respect for mutual interests, recognition that we are different and that our civilisational differences are not an obstacle to cooperation. In 1997, the mainstream had very different ideas: that the world was flat, that “history is over”, that we should all be the same, and that if someone emphasised their civilisational uniqueness, it would inevitably lead to conflict.

Despite the comic optimism of the Western vision of the future, this concept also accepts that the path to the triumph of liberal democracy may well be paved with conflict. It is not without reason that ex-Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, when asked by a journalist whether it was the American invasion of Iraq that led to the outbreak of civil war in that country, replied: “Democracy will find its way.

The Russian and Chinese approach stands in opposition to this. It understands peace as a fragile, unstable and rare state of international relations. The duty of states is not just to observe what happens at home, but to provide a structure for common interaction.

The West has no such sense of fragility. On the contrary, an offensive, largely provocative tactic prevails: strike a balance and see what happens. This means thinking in short political cycles.

In addition, American political elites are probably spoiled by the relatively long period of peace and distance from the geographical centre of major conflicts: it is safe to live across two oceans, and it is easy to imagine that the rest of the world lives in the same safe environment. Of course, this approach is not shared by either Russia or China.

The Russian vision believes there are several key states responsible for order in their regions of the world, whose task is to maintain their patch. Important for understanding China’s approach to its own place on the international stage is the Belt and Road Initiative, which since its announcement in 2013 has developed primarily as a transport and logistics project. Now it is beginning to move towards the softer aspects of this strategy, in particular the rules that allow for the regulation of border crossings, rules for the inspection of goods, approaches to building common infrastructure. This is a more complex level, with different depths and dynamics in China’s bilateral relations with different countries.

This concept has a significant domestic dimension, as it is an important strategic guideline for China’s state enterprises and fixates the attention of Chinese society on these goals. The government’s focus on the creation of a common transport, technology and communications space linking China with other countries is clear and allows large companies to set indicators in their strategic planning to move closer to the common goal. For objective reasons, China is now becoming the most important trading partner for most countries in the world, so the Belt and Road allows it to structure and streamline its approaches to trade, bilateral cooperation in industry, energy and other areas.

For our country, Russia, the fact that China is open to pairing integration projects is crucial. Some time ago, President Vladimir Putin emphasised this at the Belt and Road Jubilee Forum in Beijing. The importance of other integration projects is recognised, and this resonates with the Russian idea of a Greater Eurasian Partnership, which should include the EAEU, ASEAN and other associations in addition to the Belt and Road programme. The integration process, based on the principles of equality, mutual respect and solidarity in defining the rules of interaction, is a conceptually different approach from the rigid list of rules that the West comes with.

Interesting

.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: PR China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-war/arti ... ia-taps-it

Huawei’s AI chip capabilities under intense scrutiny after market leader Nvidia taps it as potential rival

Huawei’s Ascend 910B chip, already available on the mainland, is said to be on par in terms of computing power with Nvidia’s sought-after A100 GPU

The Chinese-developed chip can compete with Nvidia’s A100 in terms of powering AI algorithms, according to semiconductor research firm SemiAnalysis

With Nvidia currently unable to ship its advanced graphics processing units (GPUs) to mainland China under Washington’s export restrictions, a new AI chipset from Huawei has emerged as a replacement for the US firm’s Chinese products, industry insiders and analysts say.

The Huawei Ascend 910B, already available via distributor channels on the mainland, is considered by some industry participants to be on par in terms of computing power with Nvidia’s sought-after A100 data-centre GPUs. Huawei has not made any public comment on the 910B.


Hmmm


If true , Nvidia stock would fall sharply, up to 30% or more , if so, all Semi stocks would follow downhill and pull the market down.

Market heading down would help Trump

.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27435
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: China

Post by Typhoon »

Western orientalism nonsense at its finest.

Let's fix that for you.

"Many turd, pardon me, third world dictators prefer China over the US"

Of course, 3rd world kleptocrats are enamored of the all-controlling Chinese system.

Aside from them, no one wants to be Chinese.

____

Meanwhile, back in the real world. As PR China official stats have little, if nothing, to do with reality, iron ore is a useful proxy.

FT - Lex | Iron ore’s plunge bodes ill for steel demand — and China’s economy

Iron_ore_price.png
Iron_ore_price.png (1.4 MiB) Viewed 201 times
Spring is historically the peak season for steel demand in China. When futures plunge just ahead of that time of year, you know that something is not right.

Three years ago, prices for iron ore, the material used for steelmaking, rose so fast to record highs that Beijing had to intervene with vows to punish speculation. More than two decades of nonstop gains in real estate prices had left the local steel sector’s growth seen as almost guaranteed.

Now iron ore prices are plunging, down over tenth since mid February and by nearly a fifth this year. Oversupply coupled with China’s economic slowdown means the sector is becoming a dangerous one to invest in. 

Global investors had hoped for a rebound in Chinese steel demand following the Lunar New Year holidays last month as consumer spending showed signs of improvement. That has not materialised. Demand is falling from all the sectors that have been the largest buyers of steel: property developers, carmakers and home appliance companies. 

Futures for iron ore have been sliding last week in Singapore, as have Chinese futures and steel contracts in Shanghai. Inventories at major Chinese steel mills jumped more than a quarter over the past few weeks.

Overcapacity has long been a problem, despite Beijing’s efforts to limit steel production, with about 500 steel mills in the country. Demand from the local property sector — which, as the hungriest sector, accounts for over a third of China’s total steel consumption — remains depressed with no end to the real estate crisis in sight.

Country Garden, one of the largest developers, received a liquidation petition filed by one of its creditors last week, which suggests a further decline in steel demand is on the cards. Liquidation proceedings mean the priority becomes selling off assets and could make it more challenging for developers to access new funding, halting construction and leaving thousands of homes unfinished

Shares of Baoshan Iron & Steel, the listed subsidiary of China’s largest steelmaker Baowu, are down over 40 per cent from their 2021 peak. They trade at 11 times forward earnings, significantly lagging behind the performance of regional peers such as South Korea’s Posco. Operating margins are slim at less than 5 per cent, having fallen more than 40 per cent in the past two years.

Investors should not risk getting caught in the turmoil. Further steel price and margin declines, followed by industry consolidation, appear inevitable.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Typhoon wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:49 pm Western orientalism nonsense at its finest.

Let's fix that for you.

"Many turd, pardon me, third world dictators prefer China over the US"

Of course, 3rd world kleptocrats are enamored of the all-controlling Chinese system.

Aside from them, no one wants to be Chinese.

____

Meanwhile, back in the real world. As PR China official stats have little, if nothing, to do with reality, iron ore is a useful proxy.

FT - Lex | Iron ore’s plunge bodes ill for steel demand — and China’s economy


Iron_ore_price.png

Spring is historically the peak season for steel demand in China. When futures plunge just ahead of that time of year, you know that something is not right.

Three years ago, prices for iron ore, the material used for steelmaking, rose so fast to record highs that Beijing had to intervene with vows to punish speculation. More than two decades of nonstop gains in real estate prices had left the local steel sector’s growth seen as almost guaranteed.

Now iron ore prices are plunging, down over tenth since mid February and by nearly a fifth this year. Oversupply coupled with China’s economic slowdown means the sector is becoming a dangerous one to invest in. 

Global investors had hoped for a rebound in Chinese steel demand following the Lunar New Year holidays last month as consumer spending showed signs of improvement. That has not materialised. Demand is falling from all the sectors that have been the largest buyers of steel: property developers, carmakers and home appliance companies. 

Futures for iron ore have been sliding last week in Singapore, as have Chinese futures and steel contracts in Shanghai. Inventories at major Chinese steel mills jumped more than a quarter over the past few weeks.

Overcapacity has long been a problem, despite Beijing’s efforts to limit steel production, with about 500 steel mills in the country. Demand from the local property sector — which, as the hungriest sector, accounts for over a third of China’s total steel consumption — remains depressed with no end to the real estate crisis in sight.

Country Garden, one of the largest developers, received a liquidation petition filed by one of its creditors last week, which suggests a further decline in steel demand is on the cards. Liquidation proceedings mean the priority becomes selling off assets and could make it more challenging for developers to access new funding, halting construction and leaving thousands of homes unfinished

Shares of Baoshan Iron & Steel, the listed subsidiary of China’s largest steelmaker Baowu, are down over 40 per cent from their 2021 peak. They trade at 11 times forward earnings, significantly lagging behind the performance of regional peers such as South Korea’s Posco. Operating margins are slim at less than 5 per cent, having fallen more than 40 per cent in the past two years.

Investors should not risk getting caught in the turmoil. Further steel price and margin declines, followed by industry consolidation, appear inevitable.



Iron Ore :lol: :lol:


In case not aware yet, China already built it's infrastructure, Iron Ore need no Iron Ore need used 2B


"Fist Fight" is in Technology and US is losing


Fortune.com
March 5, 2024 at 10:05 AM PST

Apple’s iPhone sales plummet 24% in China,
while Huawei’s skyrocket 64%
Chinese consumers abandon American tech



https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/05/apple-i ... -says.html


Now Huawei making AI chips equivalent performance to Novidia makin

https://www.reuters.com/technology/baid ... 023-11-07/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tech-war ... 00034.html

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/nvidia-sees ... -1.2007795


Sanctioning Chinese Semi purchase from US was the biggest mistake US did .. now Chinese will excel in chips too .. and wipe out western chips industry


Western "White Men" thinks Chinese and Iranians and Russians and Indians low IQ, can not match West, if they mach west, they must be either stealing or copying. :lol:


Month ago, I posted that market looks at "Steve Jobs Apple" as a "tech innovator" company (therefore the high "multiple") .. no innovation since Jobs left us .. Apple was living on "borrowed time" during US trying to f*ck Huawei ..

Now Huawei is up and Apple will nose dive

Unfortunately
.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27435
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: PR China

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:25 pm .

Bloomberg
Huawei Ranks No. 5 in U.S. Patents



Huawei Technologies Co. is continuing to move up the list of companies getting the most U.S. patents, according to a new study of patenting activity that shows Chinese firms are increasingly responsible for a greater share of the world’s innovation.


:lol: come on .. @least get the fact before distorting them


If Chinese are as idi*t as you seem to believe, if so, why West afraid of China (and not of India :lol: ), why sanction China ? Why now even the legacy Chips are sanctioned for China ?
.
The reason Huawei seeks patents in the US is that, unlike PR China, patent law is enforceable.

No one is saying that PR Chinese are idiots.
Unlike, for example, the former SU, they've been able to make good use of the intellectual property that they've stolen,
Huawei being a case in point.

As for Apple, little sympathy for them, as they fooled themselves by relying so heavily on PR China as an assembly subcontractor and as a long term retail market.

As for iron ore, we still live in the physical world.

The claim that the rapid massive drop in PR China iron ore consumption is due to "finished construction" is laughable.

With the benefit of hindsight, the West offshoring manufacturing to PR China rationalized by the belief that they "want to be like us" has to be one of the dumbest delusions in history and largest "own goal".

However, the West may yet again get lucky with Grand Pooh Bear Xi reimplementing central planning.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: PR China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Typhoon wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:42 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:25 pm

Bloomberg
Huawei Ranks No. 5 in U.S. Patents



Huawei Technologies Co. is continuing to move up the list of companies getting the most U.S. patents, according to a new study of patenting activity that shows Chinese firms are increasingly responsible for a greater share of the world’s innovation.


:lol: come on .. @least get the fact before distorting them


If Chinese are as idi*t as you seem to believe, if so, why West afraid of China (and not of India :lol: ), why sanction China ? Why now even the legacy Chips are sanctioned for China ?
.

The reason Huawei seeks patents in the US is that, unlike PR China, patent law is enforceable.


True , patents in the US is more "enforceable"

But issue was not where Chinese register the patent

Bloomberg says : Chinese firms are increasingly responsible for a greater share of the world’s innovation. .. one can not be leading in world innovations by stealing and copying others.


Typhoon wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:42 pm
As for Apple, little sympathy for them, as they fooled themselves by relying so heavily on PR China as an assembly subcontractor and as a long term retail market.

Apple is "an innovator" play .. they invented computer we know today, they invented Mobile smart Phone (mobility, mobile data) we see today .. that is where their high market multiple comes from

Today, they no more "innovator" but consumer product producer ..

The innovator today is Huawei .. to beat US sanctions, they must "reinvent" .. seems they succeeding.

Typhoon wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:42 pm
With the benefit of hindsight, the West offshoring manufacturing to PR China rationalized by the belief that they "want to be like us" has to be one of the dumbest delusions in history and largest "own goal".

Agree, dumb .. Why should Chinese or Russian or Iranian be like West ? Are the Japanese like Americans ? or French

Said many times, Persi*ns kept the Empire for 1000s year uninterrupted "by letting each be it's own", that is why Persian Kings called "Shah'an'Shah" King of the Kings :lol:

.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27435
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: China

Post by Typhoon »

May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Nvidia deflating ..

China, Huawei and others have equivalent semi for AI

And

There not yet any killer application for Ai chips, to sell in mass

Nvidia could fall to $ 1+ Trillion cap , a 54% retreat from today's close, to 400 $/share :lol:

This a classic Wall Street crook SCAM, pump Semi stocks to absurd highs, dump it on Idi*ts, and, start pumping next struggling sector.

My guess is, energy will now be bought.

.
Post Reply