On Christ's Passion

[Marcus]

The documents cited above—the Westminster Confession, the Book of Concord, and the Belgic Confession—are not simply what some priest thinks fit and proper. Agree with them or not, as you and we all are free to do, they all are the results of joint effort by sincere, intelligent men, and have all stood the test of time.

Yes, that is worth being reminded of, and to think the consensus of centuries can be blithely dismissed is ignorant.

Do you feel the same way about e.g. Confucianism? It was likewise the product of the join efforts of sincere and intelligent men and has also stood the test of time.

Absolutely!

[Ibrahim]

The documents cited above—the Westminster Confession, the Book of Concord, and the Belgic Confession—are not simply what some priest thinks fit and proper. Agree with them or not, as you and we all are free to do, they all are the results of joint effort by sincere, intelligent men, and have all stood the test of time.

Yes, that is worth being reminded of, and to think the consensus of centuries can be blithely dismissed is ignorant.

Do you feel the same way about e.g. Confucianism? It was likewise the product of the join efforts of sincere and intelligent men and has also stood the test of time.

Absolutely!

Fair enough. This is generally why I study religions as a form of recreation.

[Demon of Undoing]

" Consensus of history" is of dubious value. The consensus was that women were half-people. Consensus is another way of saying agreed ignorance.

[Marcus]

" Consensus of history" is of dubious value. The consensus was that women were half-people. Consensus is another way of saying agreed ignorance.

True in many cases, but if one doesn't know where one's been, one doesn't know where one's going.

Out of Revolution by Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy:

Eugen was a friend of mine and the teacher of my colleague--Page Smith--one of the great American historians. Eugen came to teach at UCSC after his retirement from Dartmouth. His book on the history of European culture is one of the relatively unknown treasures of modern letters. Eugen was clairvoyant in his unique ability to portray the national character of the major cultures of the West, on the theme of revolution. Although he was a scholar of profound learning, he never lost the passion of his personal voice, which infuses everything he wrote; how appropriate as one of the figures in the I-Thou circle of Martin Buber and Franz Rosenzweig. The book was born out of the agony of the trenches of the lst world war, at Verdun, where the curse over Europe was uttered in the 9th century at the Treaty of Verdun. Eugen gives us the integration of European culture in all of its unique individuality, from nation to nation. Absolutely essential reading for those in charge of the current European Commission and the Council of Europe and the Museum of Europe in Brussels.
This is the book about the unified cultural heritage of Europe.

—Google the title for much more

[Demon of Undoing]

Considering what they got out of it, and where their line of thinking is today, I'll take their opinions as flawed, scoop out the little that is consistent with Jesus, and try to make my own peace with the cross. Very little of ecclesiology contains Christ.

This is my point. The book learnin' ( and writing) doesn't impress me if it's used to hammer out ways to avoid obligation to God.

[Marcus]

. . Very little of ecclesiology contains Christ. . .

Ah, you and I could enjoy a cigar over that one . .

“As I have read the Gospels over the years, the belief has grown in me that Christ did not come to found an organized religion but came instead to found an unorganized one. He seems to have come to carry religion out of the temples into the fields and sheep pastures, onto the roadsides and the banks of the rivers, into the houses of sinners and publicans, into the town and the wilderness, toward the membership of all that is here. . . "

—Wendell Berry

[Demon of Undoing]

. . Very little of ecclesiology contains Christ. . .

Ah, you and I could enjoy a cigar over that one . .

“As I have read the Gospels over the years, the belief has grown in me that Christ did not come to found an organized religion but came instead to found an unorganized one. He seems to have come to carry religion out of the temples into the fields and sheep pastures, onto the roadsides and the banks of the rivers, into the houses of sinners and publicans, into the town and the wilderness, toward the membership of all that is here. . . "

—Wendell Berry

Marcus, we have our rubs, but where that rubber meets the road, I do think we would agree. Best sermons I ever witnessed never spoke a word.

[Ibrahim]

" Consensus of history" is of dubious value. The consensus was that women were half-people. Consensus is another way of saying agreed ignorance.

The consensus doesn't interest me, and there was seldom consensus. What a religion (among over things) provides is an insight into the ethics and ideals of civilizations in history.