Circumcision is the sacrificial promise to G_d that the rest of the Jew, Christian or Muslim will be presented to Him in Heaven. So, is everybody intact in Heaven, that's the deal? Then, if you decline circumcision what does that mean? That you're intact on this earth means that a life here is enough and sufficient for you and you can go to dust for all anyone cares, because that's kewl with you...... right?..........Demon of Undoing wrote:What are the theological implications for Jews to not circumcise at birth? Ought they not to retreat from old notions of children as property, to be treated according to tribal whimsy? Is it not right that a Jew should choose the way of God, possibly at the bar mitzvah?
Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
I'm not talking about not circumcising at all. This is like infant baptism. How does something done to you account for righteousness?
And are you talking about being reunited with your foreskin in heaven? Seriously?
And are you talking about being reunited with your foreskin in heaven? Seriously?
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Circumcision confirms entering into the covenant, otherwise I'm riffing on one of the symbolic possibilities.....'>........
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
Re: Solutions: Medical Tourism & Aliyah to Iz, Uz or Up & Ou
monster_gardener wrote:.
2 possible solutions...........
1. Medical Tourism: take the baby to Israel, Uz or other State that doesn't have problems with this......
Yes it will cost money........ Might have to have fund raisers for those who want but can't afford it...........
2. Move somewhere more culturally friendly on a permanent basis...... Israel, Uz, etc..........
One more proof of the need of Jews for their own homeland where they set their own rules...... not Gentiles well intentioned or not.....
Ultimately the need is for off world Zions.......... The current Zion is in a crazy bad neighborhood.........
.
Monster, you Judaism/Zionist advocate or something ? ? ? ?
Strange, Monster, Strange
how come you guys when it comes to Islam you become very logic and modern and up to date and and and
but when it comes to Jews you still in stone age ? ?
how come ? ?
issue here not where one can move to do a (religious) ritual violating an individuals human rights
issue whether violating a child's right is legal and should be done
how come an unborn fetus has rights but a born child does not ? ?
fact is, parents, adults, decide for that child whether he wants to be circumcised or not
if so, argument could be made that parents too could decide whether a fetus should be aborted or not
and
Aliyah destination should be Khazar, Russia, Latvia and not Philistine .. converts do not have any rights to Palestine
and
German law probably does not say circumcision should not be performed in Germany, but, it probably says circumcision are illegal .. raising money to take that child to somewhere else to perform an act against the law would not solve the issue (in itself against the law, like taking someone somewhere else to be killed, like going somewhere for abortion .. in Ireland not only performing abortion is illegal but abortion itself is illegal even if done somewhere else).. by returning back to Germany parents should be arrested mutilating a child's sexual organ
how come you have so much respect for Jewish rituals but not for Muslim rituals
How come, Monster, you gallantly forget that "stoning for adultery" is a Jewish law same as circumcision but beat on Muslims for the same
be even handed
.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
But can a baby be entered into a covenant by their parents? It's inconsistent, because if the parents' sin can't be accrued to the child, how can their righteousness? Regardless of symbolism or literal reality, why does one person's choice do anything for another? I think the pro-infant snipping side has a problem, here.Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Circumcision confirms entering into the covenant, otherwise I'm riffing on one of the symbolic possibilities.....'>........
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
How come, Monster, you gallantly forget that "stoning for adultery" is a Jewish law same as circumcision but beat on Muslims for the same
The Jews don't perform that abomination any more. Anybody that does, Scientologist or whatever, deserves whatever flack they get. And then some.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Because everyone isn't a non-conforming protestant whose conceives of an individualism which makes all human relations fictitious entities?Demon of Undoing wrote:But can a baby be entered into a covenant by their parents? It's inconsistent, because if the parents' sin can't be accrued to the child, how can their righteousness? Regardless of symbolism or literal reality, why does one person's choice do anything for another? I think the pro-infant snipping side has a problem, here.Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Circumcision confirms entering into the covenant, otherwise I'm riffing on one of the symbolic possibilities.....'>........
EDIT postcript: If you aren't going to start that thread in the philosophy section, then I will today after I get back from the hospital. My grandmother is on her last legs here.
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Neither is the baby. Neither can the baby be an observant Jew.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Because everyone isn't a non-conforming protestant whose conceives of an individualism which makes all human relations fictitious entities?Demon of Undoing wrote:But can a baby be entered into a covenant by their parents? It's inconsistent, because if the parents' sin can't be accrued to the child, how can their righteousness? Regardless of symbolism or literal reality, why does one person's choice do anything for another? I think the pro-infant snipping side has a problem, here.Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Circumcision confirms entering into the covenant, otherwise I'm riffing on one of the symbolic possibilities.....'>........
I get the joke, but it's a serious question. May need to track Super Jew Goldman down and ask him.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
I see you edited your post. yes it is a serious question, so I'll cut out the joking.Demon of Undoing wrote:Neither is the baby. Neither can the baby be an observant Jew.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Because everyone isn't a non-conforming protestant whose conceives of an individualism which makes all human relations fictitious entities?Demon of Undoing wrote:But can a baby be entered into a covenant by their parents? It's inconsistent, because if the parents' sin can't be accrued to the child, how can their righteousness? Regardless of symbolism or literal reality, why does one person's choice do anything for another? I think the pro-infant snipping side has a problem, here.Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Circumcision confirms entering into the covenant, otherwise I'm riffing on one of the symbolic possibilities.....'>........
And there is a serious answer but first you got to start with defining who an observant Jew is. And then you have to look towards what Genesis says:
“Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14
Genesis ordains circumcision as a mark or token of God’s covenant with Abraham.
Abraham receives a promise that his descendants will inherit the land of Canaan and he is to mark those descendants, both his physical descendants and those bought from foreigners by circumcision, much as we notch livestock's ears. Futhermore, every explanation of God’s commands need not be based on human needs, as if God were some sort of cosmic minister of health, law, and economics who we give our obedience to because He's handing out the ritalin so you can get through His venture capitalism speeches....
There is a fundamental disagreement going on here, which is why I brought up the non-conforming protestant bit; because the English non-conforming churches have the most impact on the world. And we have received their concept of "choice" in our secular lives. So it seems alien, and almost wicked, to say that a parent may do something so barbaric as to mark their descendants without allowing them the "choice" of whether they want to be apart of the family.
But I'm unsure that if this is an actual "choice" being denied the child or just another presupposition from the dominant culture that insists that it is, even as nature (cruelly?) places us in various stations of life (and with certain parents) that we couldn't change even if we wanted.
The boy or girl who spends his or her formative years preparing for his or her choices while being a blank slate during childhood and adolescence often will remain a similar blank slate into adulthood because it was the primary lesson inculcated in their education, and it is to that which society clearly expects assent.
It becomes a very clever method of extinguishing unlikable cultures (and religions) without direct confrontation.
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Infant Baptism vs. Nasty Types............
Thank You VERY Much for you post, Bezerk Savant/DOU.Demon of Undoing wrote:I'm not talking about not circumcising at all. This is like infant baptism. How does something done to you account for righteousness?
And are you talking about being reunited with your foreskin in heaven? Seriously?
I was raised Protestant but I approve of Infant Baptism...... Some of the Enemy's nastier/crazier devotees are reputed to be more interested in unbaptized kidsThis is like infant baptism. How does something done to you account for righteousness
I was taught that you don't need Infant Baptism but I don't think it does any harm unless you depend on it for Salvation after whenever the "Age of Accountability" clicks in for you if it does*.......
At that point best to make your confession, get baptized again, and be on your guard...
If Infant Baptism does work, it could be a simple Bureaucratic miracle.... No need to work around the normal laws/conditions of the Universe.....
G_d sets the rules for Salvation....... He says it works, so it does...... And even a lay person can do it.......
*I suspect that for some/many/most of the mentally challenged it never does...... Remembering that C.S. Lewis speculated that G_d didn't want most of the human race to have to contend with the Enemy and that pre-modern medicine most of us didn't....... died early......... We clever Killer Ape Sinners have changed the game conditions... we get to stay in the game longer but have to be more on our guard..........
Last edited by monster_gardener on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
And to Nap, events since that Sunday have come hot and heavy, including the next dozen hours. I lied when I said my news was boring. I will try to write in the dark of the wee hours as best I can, but circumstances have greatly militated against 2k word essays.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Okay, it goes without saying that it isn't a pressing concern, essays will come when they come...I hope everything works out for you- like I said, I'll start the thread when I get back.Demon of Undoing wrote:And to Nap, events since that Sunday have come hot and heavy, including the next dozen hours. I lied when I said my news was boring. I will try to write in the dark of the wee hours as best I can, but circumstances have greatly militated against 2k word essays.
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Demon of Undoing wrote:.
How come, Monster, you gallantly forget that "stoning for adultery" is a Jewish law same as circumcision but beat on Muslims for the same
The Jews don't perform that abomination any more. Anybody that does, Scientologist or whatever, deserves whatever flack they get. And then some.
.
OK , now that we have established "stoning for adultery" is Jewish origin, let's go to implementation of (though, not performing does not mean will not)
how many "stoning for adultery" last 100 years in Iran ? ?
non confirmed one
Mujahedin Propaganda doctored pictures showing something
but no real confirmation of any
well
why you bothering our beloved poor Ahmadinejat ?
.
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
The more interesting queestion is: what to uncircumcised adult males who convert to Judaism or Islam do? I'm guessing many of them decide that circumcision is a symbolic and largely unnecessary practice. If they subsequently have children, I'm sure they go ahead and circumcise them because its and "important and traditional part of being born into the people of God" or what have you. Circumcision, like higher taxes, is all fine and good for the other guy.Demon of Undoing wrote:What are the theological implications for Jews to not circumcise at birth? Ought they not to retreat from old notions of children as property, to be treated according to tribal whimsy? Is it not right that a Jew should choose the way of God, possibly at the bar mitzvah?
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
.
.. Loooove it : 'Worst Attack on Jewish Life Since the Holocaust'
... what a rubbish
one more reason there no "spirituality" in that thing
all just plain ritual garbage
they did not get it, the spirituality from Zoroastrianism .. just incorporated rubbish ancient rituals, stoning for adultery, don't put milk and egg in same fridge .. don't drive cars on Saturdays .. mutilate baby boys LoLy etc etc .. all stone age barbarian, civilization-less, primitive tribe rituals
funny thing, icing on the cake, claiming, the guy chose them to enlighten us .. the chosen people fraud
"influential group of European rabbis" .. Capo di Capo
.
.. Loooove it : 'Worst Attack on Jewish Life Since the Holocaust'
... what a rubbish
one more reason there no "spirituality" in that thing
all just plain ritual garbage
they did not get it, the spirituality from Zoroastrianism .. just incorporated rubbish ancient rituals, stoning for adultery, don't put milk and egg in same fridge .. don't drive cars on Saturdays .. mutilate baby boys LoLy etc etc .. all stone age barbarian, civilization-less, primitive tribe rituals
funny thing, icing on the cake, claiming, the guy chose them to enlighten us .. the chosen people fraud
.
An influential group of European rabbis on Thursday used unusually strong language to attack a German court ruling against the circumcision of boys. If the ruling is allowed to stand, the group's president warned, "then I don't see a future for Jews in Germany."
.
"influential group of European rabbis" .. Capo di Capo
.
Calling it the "worst attack on Jewish life since the Holocaust," the Conference of European Rabbis on Thursday strongly condemned a recent German court decision that criminalizes the circumcision of boys.
"A ban on circumcision poses an existential question for the Jewish community in Germany," the president of the organization, Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt, said on Thursday. "If the ruling is allowed to stand, then I don't see a future for Jews in Germany."
The rabbi said he believed the German government would take steps to pass a law ensuring that circumcision, which is practiced as a religious tradition by Jews and Muslims alike, be legal in Germany.
He said the ban on shechita, the ritual slaughter of mammals and birds according to Jewish dietary laws, by the National Socialists had also been a sign for many Jews that "we need to leave Germany." But he added that a ban on circumcision, given the importance of the tradition, would send a much stronger message.
Cologne's regional court ruled on June 26 that doctors in Germany who circumcise a boy for religious reasons could be accused of committing bodily injury, even in cases where parents have given their express consent. The ruling has been criticized by religious groups in Germany as well as the Israeli parliament.
The ruling is not a blanket ban of circumcisions across Germany. But some fear that it could be seen as a precedent for other, similar decisions.
.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Five pages and all I have is a better idea of who is cut, who is uncut, or who might want to be, or wish they were not.
You people will argue the time of day.
You people will argue the time of day.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Well, it's just a skin job.Skin Job wrote:Five pages and all I have is a better idea of who is cut, who is uncut, or who might want to be, or wish they were not.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Skin Job wrote:.
Five pages and all I have is a better idea of who is cut, who is uncut, or who might want to be, or wish they were not.
You people will argue the time of day.
.
SJ
you gotto read between the lines
issue not Circumcision
issue "Hypocrisy"
BTW , have you guys noticed non of the 7 million German (make it Turkish) Muslims said anything about Circumcision being illegal (criminal) now in Germany ? ?
Monster, Muslims do not care about (barbaric) Circumcision, why so ? ?
.
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
.
circumcision, which many believe to be the “foundation” of their faith
what kind of religion, what kind of G_D, is that Yahood that "foundation" of that is circumcision ? ?
told you guys, no spirituality whatsoever
either they did not understand what Zoroaster was getting at, was preaching, or, they thought you guys did not
"many believe to be the “foundation” of their faith" .. not good deed, not good thought, not believing in Almighty, but circumcision is the foundation of Judaism
what a disaster (Rhubarb, things unraveling)
.
circumcision, which many believe to be the “foundation” of their faith
what kind of religion, what kind of G_D, is that Yahood that "foundation" of that is circumcision ? ?
told you guys, no spirituality whatsoever
either they did not understand what Zoroaster was getting at, was preaching, or, they thought you guys did not
"many believe to be the “foundation” of their faith" .. not good deed, not good thought, not believing in Almighty, but circumcision is the foundation of Judaism
what a disaster (Rhubarb, things unraveling)
.
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Earl Pitts UhMeriKun mentions Circumcision - For Cucumbers..
Thank your Very Much for the Thread, Hoosier Norm
In his radio monologue today, Earl Pitts, UhMeriKun, said that he was so mad about being tricked by his wife Pearl into going clothes shopping with her*, that he wanted to sneak into his neighbor's garden and circumcise the cucumbers
Glad I just picked most of the cukes that were ripe yesterday......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Pitts ... aracter%29
*Reminds me of Spengler's story about how a Mullah told a woman who asked what the Muslim Paradise was like for women, told her that it was like an eternal shopping trip ....... Which prompted me to speculate that Hell for the men might consist in going on that eternal shopping trip with the women
In his radio monologue today, Earl Pitts, UhMeriKun, said that he was so mad about being tricked by his wife Pearl into going clothes shopping with her*, that he wanted to sneak into his neighbor's garden and circumcise the cucumbers
Glad I just picked most of the cukes that were ripe yesterday......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Pitts ... aracter%29
*Reminds me of Spengler's story about how a Mullah told a woman who asked what the Muslim Paradise was like for women, told her that it was like an eternal shopping trip ....... Which prompted me to speculate that Hell for the men might consist in going on that eternal shopping trip with the women
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Re: Earl Pitts UhMeriKun mentions Circumcision - For Cucumbe
monster_gardener wrote:.
*Reminds me of Spengler's story about how a Mullah told a woman who asked what the Muslim Paradise was like for women, told her that it was like an eternal shopping trip ....... Which prompted me to speculate that Hell for the men might consist in going on that eternal shopping trip with the women
.
a good one, Monster
2 things
Only Shia have Mullah (leading to Ayatollah) .. Sunni do not have (divine) clergy
and
saying to a woman, in paradise woman will be on "eternal shopping" trip, shows the pragmatism in Shia, adapting paradise to needs of the time (and individual), definition of reformation
and
shows different mindset of Iranian and those tribes of Arabia
for tribes of Arabia, paradise is "blond blue eye endless virgins that stay virgin despite"
interesting
if being devote Muslim (or any religion) is for love of G_D (what G_D represents), a Muslim believer should consider paradise as a place where he/she can entirely devote to G_D, without earthy needs .. but , NO .. the devote Muslim looking for sexual orgies and and and, all things he was dreaming of on earth but could not get but hopefully will get in paradise
what does this say ? ?
It does not say much about Islam
what it says, is, that believer no believer in goodness of G_D, but looking for goodies for not being nasty right now
that universal and not a Muslim phenomena .. notion, G_D rewards you if you a good human, therefore "rich people" must be (good human beings and therefor) liked by G_D (because G_D has rewarded them with wealth), Calvinism, and similar in Judaism
what that says, is, the quality of the believers
.
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Germany Will Protect Circumcision
A terrible defeat for human rights at the hands of benighted bronze-age superstition, or a glorious triumph for human rights over totalitarian euro-bureaucrats, depending on your perspective.
A terrible defeat for human rights at the hands of benighted bronze-age superstition, or a glorious triumph for human rights over totalitarian euro-bureaucrats, depending on your perspective.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Any way you cut it, it's a shriveling day for penises everywhere.Taboo wrote:Germany Will Protect Circumcision
A terrible defeat for human rights at the hands of benighted bronze-age superstition, or a glorious triumph for human rights over totalitarian euro-bureaucrats, depending on your perspective.
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Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Merkel doesn't need to precipitate another lavender-storm in the face of the ongoing sovereign bank crisis. Besides, she has no...... heh, skin in the game.....;p'...........
Gentlemen: Your wives and/or girlfriends hate your anteater. Get over it.
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
Re: Spengler Discovers Dangerous Circumcision
Short answer:
Circumcision is inseparable from the effect of writing.
For preliterate civilizations, in which the Signifier lived by oral repetition, meaning was grounded in the body of the Woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurines
The semantic stability of repeated words needs a guarantor, a Sign of true constancy, and until the advent of writing the feminine figure supplied this constancy, enshrined in Priestesses and temple-prostitutes, of which the proliferation of Venus-figures was a universal reminder.
This grounding, Constancy in the Woman, is a classic instance of what is necessary and inevitable simultaneously being impossible and ultimately doomed.
Woman was able to contain the Signifier for a long time, but it escaped.
Writing transfers the root of memory out of orality, where the Woman dominates the Male through the dependency of the Breast, and into visibility and the Light. Writing made it possible to found a memory of the Signifier without the Woman. How? Through cutting and scarring. Orality grounded constancy in the Breast and in the Woman's body, Literacy grounds it on Pain and the Mark made visible on the man's body, (paper originally having been parchment-skin, which even more originally had been human skin.)
So the written signifier is first enacted through the tattoo, or scarification. Judaism comes onto the scene in a deviation from this. The body still offers too much openness, too much variability and ambiguity to satisfy the Signifier's mandate of One. (cf: Franz Kafka, In the Penal Colony)
The One God seeks out what is One on the body of Man: the penis.
Phallus thus replaces Woman as the ground of what is permanent and True.
Circumcision is inseparable from the effect of writing.
For preliterate civilizations, in which the Signifier lived by oral repetition, meaning was grounded in the body of the Woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurines
The semantic stability of repeated words needs a guarantor, a Sign of true constancy, and until the advent of writing the feminine figure supplied this constancy, enshrined in Priestesses and temple-prostitutes, of which the proliferation of Venus-figures was a universal reminder.
This grounding, Constancy in the Woman, is a classic instance of what is necessary and inevitable simultaneously being impossible and ultimately doomed.
Woman was able to contain the Signifier for a long time, but it escaped.
Writing transfers the root of memory out of orality, where the Woman dominates the Male through the dependency of the Breast, and into visibility and the Light. Writing made it possible to found a memory of the Signifier without the Woman. How? Through cutting and scarring. Orality grounded constancy in the Breast and in the Woman's body, Literacy grounds it on Pain and the Mark made visible on the man's body, (paper originally having been parchment-skin, which even more originally had been human skin.)
So the written signifier is first enacted through the tattoo, or scarification. Judaism comes onto the scene in a deviation from this. The body still offers too much openness, too much variability and ambiguity to satisfy the Signifier's mandate of One. (cf: Franz Kafka, In the Penal Colony)
The One God seeks out what is One on the body of Man: the penis.
Phallus thus replaces Woman as the ground of what is permanent and True.