Spengler Discovers Hungarian Suicide

[YMix]

i think it bears directly on Spengler's theory. I think the whole point of the theory is you need to have 4 kids, one of them a nurse.

The whole point of the theory is that lack of children means lack of happiness. But what happens if I have 4 children and I'm not happy? Or if I have no children, but I'm happy?

[Enki]

The wonderful thing about debt is its self-negating properties. If I hold the debt of someone who is dead, my debt is worthless. If someone who is dead holds my debt, their debt is worthless. That brings balance to the force in its own way. Debt is managed by its ability to be collected. So the great money tree manages to keep on keeping on due to this natural selection of debt that actually matters.

[Simple Minded]

The wonderful thing about debt is its self-negating properties. If I hold the debt of someone who is dead, my debt is worthless. If someone who is dead holds my debt, their debt is worthless. That brings balance to the force in its own way. Debt is managed by its ability to be collected. So the great money tree manages to keep on keeping on due to this natural selection of debt that actually matters.

Sounds both Franklin-esque (Neither a borrower nor a lender be.) and Keynes-esque (In the long run we are all dead.). So many aspects of life are self-correcting and just. Yet so many complain about laying in the beds they have made.

It would be so much harder for the saviors and masters of the universe to gain the power they now have if the concept of "Life is unfair" and "I am a victim." had not become so popular (and lucrative) in recent decades.

Who would have guessed that so many would willingly subscribe to the "throw me in chains but feed me" mentality.....

Foolishness on the part of the "victims" or successful marketing on the part of the "saviors"?

[Typhoon]

Hungarian birth rate>Hungarian suicide rate>Korean suicide rate>Starcraft II obsession>Jews are about to be killed off in space> Jews are the only eternal people.

Well Jews have survived supposedly for thousands of years, and yes have endured mass slaughter during that whole period.

Just because you endure means you cannot lament the mass slaughter of your people? Help me out on this.

Trail of tears for me and not for thee again? Lamentations for my tribe and not for thine?

P, in your wailing and moaning, you've become one humorless bastard. . . .

I'm starting to hope that Romney does win the POTUS election, if only for this reason.

On the hand, we'd be treated for 4 years of rationalizations for the continuation of business as usual.

[Demon of Undoing]

Ok, apparently P needs some religious breakdown on why Mormons aren't Muslims. I'll start a quick thread in Philosophy on this because, contrary to the spin he is putting on the Hungarian thing, not everything has to do with Mitt Romney saving the Republicans. I'm at the office flying a desk for my last three days, and I should have time to deal with this in a way that ought to at least hopefully trim some of the crap out of this discussion, and transfer it over there.

[YMix]

I'm starting to hope that Romney does win the POTUS election, if only for this reason.

On the hand, we'd be treated for 4 years of rationalizations for the continuation of business as usual.

Problem is, with Romney in the White House and a Republican majority in the Congress it would still be the Democrats' fault.

[Typhoon]

I'm starting to hope that Romney does win the POTUS election, if only for this reason.

On the hand, we'd be treated for 4 years of rationalizations for the continuation of business as usual.

Problem is, with Romney in the White House and a Republican majority in the Congress it would still be the Democrats' fault.

Damn those Demopublicans.

[Mr. Perfect]

Ok, apparently P needs some religious breakdown on why Mormons aren't Muslims. I'll start a quick thread in Philosophy on this because, contrary to the spin he is putting on the Hungarian thing, not everything has to do with Mitt Romney saving the Republicans. I'm at the office flying a desk for my last three days, and I should have time to deal with this in a way that ought to at least hopefully trim some of the crap out of this discussion, and transfer it over there.

No, please save the effort. You really don['t need to do that. I know Hindus and Muslims are not the same religion. I realize that. All they share in common are that fact that they are built on silly and foolish lies and fake books. I realize that. Please do not start that thread, it is a total waste of time. HIndus and Muslims are different, everybody knows that, the only thing bearing is that are based on silly and pernicious, transparent lies, although the lies are very different. I know the difference between Hindu and Muslims lies. Every press of they key will be a waste of your life in that thread.

You only think I believe that Mitt Romney is a "savior" because you want to believe that. Mitt Romney is simply the only tool within my reach for the job that needs doing. I've said this many times.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm starting to hope that Romney does win the POTUS election, if only for this reason.

On the hand, we'd be treated for 4 years of rationalizations for the continuation of business as usual.

Problem is, with Romney in the White House and a Republican majority in the Congress it would still be the Democrats' fault.

Well yes the problems we have to deal with are indeed the Democrat's fault, and in all honesty it may be too late. I admit that up front. The only hope we have of saving modernity is the Paul Ryan budget but even that may be too late.

[Mr. Perfect]

i think it bears directly on Spengler's theory. I think the whole point of the theory is you need to have 4 kids, one of them a nurse.

The whole point of the theory is that lack of children means lack of happiness. But what happens if I have 4 children and I'm not happy? Or if I have no children, but I'm happy?

Then we all may be operating under different definitions of happiness. I can certainly see both sides of that definition, people without children in my opinion based on my life experiences have a smaller quality of life, one could call happiness, but indeed there may be debates about that.

But again, this is only a small portion of what Spengler has been writing about for years. Let freedom of thought breathe a little bit shall we.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm starting to hope that Romney does win the POTUS election, if only for this reason.

On the hand, we'd be treated for 4 years of rationalizations for the continuation of business as usual.

Well you can certainly say that if you haven't been listening, as I've said many times the single most important thing i the political universe is the Paul Ryan budget. If the GOP passes it, great for them, if they don't bad for them

The difference between me and every other person here is a do not live in a world of false binary choices. It the GOP fails I can live with that but I want a new alternative to the GOP in that case, I want the liberal Democrat alternative to go away, forever. And it might. We are very close.

[YMix]

Mr. Perfect planning to save modernity with the party of Sarah Palin and advice about 1 acre and 4 children, one of whom is a nurse.

The difference between me and every other person here is a do not live in a world of false binary choices.

It the GOP fails I can live with that but I want a new alternative to the GOP in that case

Nobody's going to give another GOP, you faithful little groupie.

Then we all may be operating under different definitions of happiness. I can certainly see both sides of that definition, people without children in my opinion based on my life experiences have a smaller quality of life, one could call happiness, but indeed there may be debates about that.

Indeed there may. My own life experience says otherwise.

[Mr. Perfect]

Mr. Perfect planning to save modernity with the party of Sarah Palin and advice about 1 acre and 4 children, one of whom is a nurse.

Sarah Palin is indeed the best shot at modernity. Think on that for a while.

And my advice is for you over on your continent. Modernity is probably a lost cause for you at this point. Please learn at least how to live off a garden, I'm just trying to do everything I know how to do to help people.

Nobody's going to give another GOP, you faithful little groupie.

With the Democrats gone a new party will develop naturally. It might be a good party. I'm looking forward to it.

Indeed there may. My own life experience says otherwise.

That's fine, and we may agree to disagree in an intellectually honest manner. I can live with that. But there is more to the story, and we will be talking about it long after your people have disappeared, just as we still talk about the Maya.

[YMix]

Sarah Palin is indeed the best shot at modernity. Think on that for a while.

I did. It made me laugh.

Modernity is probably a lost cause for you at this point.

I'm just trying to do everything I know how to do to help people.

Like hell you are.

But there is more to the story, and we will be talking about it long after your people have disappeared, just as we still talk about the Maya.

I have no problem with what happens after I'm dead.

[Mr. Perfect]

I did. It made me laugh.



Like hell you are.

Ymix, I get the impression you think I'm trying to put one over on you or something. That I have a hidden agenda or something, I can't quite figure it. What am I missing?

I have no problem with what happens after I'm dead.

As they say it won't be the end of the world.

[Mr. Perfect]

BTW the left is ending modernity all over the world, in California, in Detroit, in Chicago, in Spain, in Greece, in Italy, and eventually France and the UK. Sarah Palin is indeed a great champion of modernity in comparison.

[Demon of Undoing]

Actually, after outlining it with some care, it is a waste of time. At least you're making progress with not actively trying to waste people's efforts and lives.

[Mr. Perfect]

Very well. So I'll concur that you're simply morally in the wrong and proceed. Lie based books for some and not for others.

[YMix]

Ymix, I get the impression you think I'm trying to put one over on you or something. That I have a hidden agenda or something, I can't quite figure it. What am I missing?

Comprehension?

Sarah Palin is indeed a great champion of modernity in comparison.

The only thing Sarah Palin is a champion of is her own braindead self.

[Mr. Perfect]

Comprehension?

What do I not comprehend?

The only thing Sarah Palin is a champion of is her own braindead self.

Well seeing how a braindead person appears to be right on most of the issues one wonders what the excuses are for the people wrong on most of the issues.

[Parodite]

Ok I read through the thread first time, and then Speng's article as well.

His well-known hobby of correlating low birth rates (add suicide rates as an extra dressing) with anti-Semitism... is for a great part inspired by Schadenfreude; "those who hate or kill Jews won't last...". An understandable sentiment for a Jew of European background, but it is debatable of course: Germany is doing well as the economic powerhouse of Europe 60 years after the Holocaust, most German Nazi war criminals walked out free. And indeed birthrates are not linear and suicide rates have compound causes.

He knows all this I suspect rationally, but he just loves to provoke, enjoys his amount of Schadenfreude if he finds reason or excuse to have it. Also his faith whispers in his ears that only the Judeo-Christian promise has a future in this world. If socialism can be crushed on the fly... why not; bankers don't like governments because they compete for people's money.

As for his ethno-religious irrationalism’s that inspire him in creating those concoctions of fact plus quasi proof.. he of course is not alone. The irrational-religious theme where the non/other-believer will wither away in the future to go extinct (if not suffer first in Hell for a while and to be sure) is THE religious theme of all major religions in the world. Listen carefully to Jesus or Mohammed i.e. those that wrote in their name... add Buddha if you open your ears even wider...and you will recognize the Herr Speng is just one of millions of hosts infected with that same old power-meme: be more like me, do as I do, as we do.. follow the trail that my people/group have set out for you... and read the authorities that wrote it all down for you in the name God the Merciful, Amen. If not, then, well... be very miserable be sure... and wither away into eternal oblivion....

Fear of death seems to be the main drive that created this power-meme. Perhaps also the bio-instinct that if you group together, your individual chances for survival go up as well.

Regards,
Dr Phil.

Note: to my taste his article was first and foremost about resurging anti-Semitism in Hungary. Itself factual and something to worry about. But if an anti-Semitic society is dying out because of low birth rates and high suicide rates... the problem will be solved naturally for Speng.

[YMix]

What do I not comprehend?

Future generations will know what I mean.

Well seeing how a braindead person appears to be right on most of the issues one wonders what the excuses are for the people wrong on most of the issues.

[Mr. Perfect]

Note: to my taste his article was first and foremost about resurging anti-Semitism in Hungary. Itself factual and something to worry about. But if an anti-Semitic society is dying out because of low birth rates and high suicide rates... the problem will be solved naturally for Speng.

Well thought out piece, and this is the clincher.

I can only speak for myself, but as a life and liberty loving conservative christian who used to believe in the eventual triumph of freedom for all God's children I must say that although your conclusion should be obvious it really did not come naturally.

My old instincts were to try to save people, to change their self destructive ways. To tell myself to step back and just let people die off was extremely, extremely difficult to do. Man it was hard, and I still struggle with it, and my sense is Spengler is only partially there. We'll all be there soon enough.

[Mr. Perfect]

Future generations will know what I mean.

Future generations will be my descendants, genetically and intellectually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Education_Agency

And yes, I will be laughing.

[YMix]

Fear of death seems to be the main drive that created this power-meme. Perhaps also the bio-instinct that if you group together, your individual chances for survival go up as well.

I'd say that fear of irrelevancy is the main drive. Spengman, the two-bit player that he is, cannot stand it not to be heard. If he can't be a king, he will at least play the prophet's part. Much like Mr. Perfect for that matter.

Future generations will be my descendants, genetically and intellectually.

Judging by birth rates, future generations will be Africans and Latin Americans. I doubt they will be fiscally conservative and Christian fundamentalists.