Spengler Discovers Hungarian Suicide

[Mr. Perfect]

I think Mr. P's magical Mormon underpants are too tight. But there's hope yet: Mr. P has finally admitted that none of the various religions -- from cow gods to Moronic angels -- are any more valid than the others, and are all equally unverifiable and unfalsifiable. Belief in Jesus is no different than belief in Sasquatch. And that realization, which humankind has collectively been internalizing for the past few hundred years, is why religion will never again be the basis of mankind's law, government, and civil society.

There is one that is verifiable. That's all we need. Your secular experiment is dying in Europe young man. Your deeply cherished beliefs will die with it.

BTW, that thing about foxholes, lots of foxholes in your future.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/ ... 9W20120718

While USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack said he was praying everyday for rain, he told Obama the drought is not as bad as in the last great drought of 1988.

"I get on my knees everyday and I'm saying an extra prayer right now," Vilsack said. "If I had a rain prayer or a rain dance I could do, I would do it."

[Parodite]

When a group of people dies out naturally beause they don't have enough babies... I don't see why that is bad.

People say that now, but it wasn't always necessarily so. It took some time for me to see the upside, and boy is there some upside.

Matter of taste if it needs celebration or mourning when groups grow in number... or shrink into oblivian.

Nobody is hurt, necessarily hurt by that. It may cause some economic problems temporarily.. also that resolves in time naturally.

Sure. Death makes all of life's problems go away. If you are dead by definition you can't have any of life's problems.

I'm talking about the living. People like us. And all the other 7 billion; a number that is increasing. The world ought to be a very happy place.

I'm more concerned with painful and unnecessary suffering. Birth rates are totally peanuts, close to entirely irrelevant compared to real issues that concern the living. Extinct humans and all other non-existing things don't need our attention. They hate it I suspect. They want to be forgotten, ignored. Memory and fantasy are Hell for them.

Could be, just the way socialists set up retirement it's all linked together. When you reach the age for the home it may not even be there and you'll die in an alley over a period of weeks with whatever MRE type food you can protect from scavengers, of course depending on your particular profile. But all's dead that ends dead. People have a hand in their fate, if this is what Europe has chosen for itself, so be it.

You will die too, as will the most disgusting socialist. Anyone dead stops being relevant though. Whatever the ideal society that you envision, perhaps with >4 birth rates... they will also... all... die.

Yes, the happiest and mega breeding societies are the most succesful in dying. Life is a poisenous candy that kills you. Whatever makes you swallow it with a smile.

[Enki]

The world is quite obviously happier than its ever been!

[Mr. Perfect]

Well, it's the first time in history that industrialized nations, the US included, will have such a large percentage of the people reaching old age.

It remains to be seen how societies choose to deal with this issue.

Japan may be seen as a test case in this regard.

Well, I think we can "see" it. I think it looks like Greece. It's not just the percentage of old people, it's that there is no money to take care of them and they will die in a very gruesome manner, a global horror.

A happy family is to be cherished, however, I doubt that it has much to do with immortality, if anything, except in the most restricted biological sense.

Even then I recall reading that the probability of one's specific line surviving beyond a few generations is surprisingly small.

Newton, who never married, will be remembered for as long as human civilization exists. The reality is that almost everyone, with a few exceptions, will be remembered for one or two generations at most.

Well I was not the one to introduce "immortality" to the discussion, all I can tell you is when you have kids you want what's best for them in their future, and it makes you think of the future differently it seems.

These days it's nice because ideologies I find foul are being decimated and lots of people around the world are deciding not to reproduce, leaving lots of natural resources for my progeny. I like it.

[YMix]

No, long records of GOP activity on the state level for a very long time.

I wasn't talking about state level. Since 1932 the GOP has had control of the White House and Congress more than once. What are the results, Mr. Perfect?

And nearly all Democrats will disagree with you, they will tell you almost to a man the GOP is always only one election away from cutting budgets to the bone, "austerity". You have a lot of people to argue with.

Sure they would, that's how the duopoly works. Democrats tell you that Republicans would cut budgets, Republicans tell you that Democrats would force the little church on Elm Street to marry gay people. And so on.

If it was my best option I would.

And what did this option bring you?

Could be. That's why I propose liquidating the Democrat party so a new option can emerge and put everyone's theories to the test.

Good luck with that. I'm convinced that the Republicans cannot survive the demise of their partners and, therefore, I support your proposition.

I'm not a "party" person, I'm more of an old time religion guy.

That is plain to see.

What's with the anger?

I'm not angry, just giving advice.

[Ibrahim]

A happy family is to be cherished, however, I doubt that it has much to do with immortality, if anything, except in the most restricted biological sense.

Even then I recall reading that the probability of one's specific line surviving beyond a few generations is surprisingly small.

Newton, who never married, will be remembered for as long as human civilization exists. The reality is that almost everyone, with a few exceptions, will be remembered for one or two generations at most.

There is certainly no ideologically consistent motivation for self-declared Objectivists or Capitalists to have a family. The grasp at "immortality" is absurd, since not only does genealogy sputter out at some point, but eventually it becomes mathematically redundant as we all genetically meld together into one interrelated species to the point that everyone is related to Genghis Khan to some degree.

If you have a position on the immortality of the soul settled one way or the other then all of this talk of worldly immortality should be redundant, and in fact seems a little childish.

[Mr. Perfect]

There is certainly no ideologically consistent motivation for self-declared Objectivists

Having children can be the ultimate ego gratification.

or Capitalists to have a family.

You have to have someone to bequeath your wealth other than the government.

The grasp at "immortality" is absurd,

Good thing it was a strawman argument.

since not only does genealogy sputter out at some point, but eventually it becomes mathematically redundant as we all genetically meld together into one interrelated species to the point that everyone is related to Genghis Khan to some degree.

Could be. What we know is that in the future it will be harder and harder to be related to a European, and others I'm told.

If you have a position on the immortality of the soul settled one way or the other then all of this talk of worldly immortality should be redundant, and in fact seems a little childish.

Genesis 1:28

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Sounds like you've talked yourself out of all that, and frankly I couldn't be happier. I'm just glad you have found an ideologically consistent basis for talking yourself into genetic extinction.

As for me and my house, we will fulfill the command of God, and reap those abundant blessings according to our beliefs in the immortality of the soul.

[Mr. Perfect]

I wasn't talking about state level.

I am.

Since 1932 the GOP has had control of the White House and Congress more than once. What are the results, Mr. Perfect?

A never ending war with the Universe of Lies. Getting closer to a conclusion on that.

Sure they would, that's how the duopoly works. Democrats tell you that Republicans would cut budgets, Republicans tell you that Democrats would force the little church on Elm Street to marry gay people. And so on.

They both appear to be right.

And what did this option bring you?

Survival to this point in time.

Good luck with that. I'm convinced that the Republicans cannot survive the demise of their partners and, therefore, I support your proposition.

Thank you. I am very excited about my chances.

I
That is plain to see.

I'm not angry, just giving advice.

What's the advice?

[Typhoon]

Well, it's the first time in history that industrialized nations, the US included, will have such a large percentage of the people reaching old age.

It remains to be seen how societies choose to deal with this issue.

Japan may be seen as a test case in this regard.

Well, I think we can "see" it. I think it looks like Greece. It's not just the percentage of old people, it's that there is no money to take care of them and they will die in a very gruesome manner, a global horror.

I guess I can add this to my list of doomsday predictions that are unlikely to come to pass along with rapture rupture and man made global warming.

A happy family is to be cherished, however, I doubt that it has much to do with immortality, if anything, except in the most restricted biological sense.

Even then I recall reading that the probability of one's specific line surviving beyond a few generations is surprisingly small.

Newton, who never married, will be remembered for as long as human civilization exists. The reality is that almost everyone, with a few exceptions, will be remembered for one or two generations at most.

Well I was not the one to introduce "immortality" to the discussion, all I can tell you is when you have kids you want what's best for them in their future, and it makes you think of the future differently it seems.

These days it's nice because ideologies I find foul are being decimated and lots of people around the world are deciding not to reproduce, leaving lots of natural resources for my progeny. I like it.

You're presuming that you progeny do and especially their descendants, if any, will subscribe to your ideology.

An ideology which appears to be a naive mix of social Darwinism with great expectations of schadenfreude reminiscent of those religious extremists who find great pleasure in anticipating the hell awaiting non-believers.

Even if one were to very naively assume that the Japanese birthrate will remain unchanged forever, it would take a millennium for Japan to be come extinct.

[YMix]

I am.

Well, get to the federal part.

A never ending war with the Universe of Lies. Getting closer to a conclusion on that.

Only in your head.

They both appear to be right.

Only in your head.

Survival to this point in time.

Was anyone out to kill you?

What's the advice?

Stop being a groupie.

[Mr. Perfect]

I guess I can add this to my list of doomsday predictions that are unlikely to come to pass along with rapture rupture and man made global warming.

Or it could come to pass like the subprime mortgage crisis or tech bubble, or the Great Depression, etc, etc.

You're presuming that you progeny do and especially their descendants, if any, will subscribe to your ideology.

In my family there is amazing ideological homogeneity going back 1 century. I expect it to continue. My children are more conservative than I am. And you only get more conservative as you get older.

An ideology which appears to be a naive mix of social Darwinism with great expectations of schadenfreude reminiscent of those religious extremists who find great pleasure in anticipating the hell awaiting non-believers.

Could be. When I run into someone like that I'll study it and see what it's made of.

Even if one were to very naively assume that the Japanese birthrate will remain unchanged forever, it would take a millennium for Japan to be come extinct.

Yes, this is where many of you are missing by miles. I don't know that anyone is pointing to population=0, more the horrors of bankrupting governmnents who walk away from nursing homes leaving the people to die and once thriving cities turning into Detroit projected 30 years into the future, first world standards of living turning into 3rd world, peasants essentially living among ruins. It's hard to predict of course all the details, or what it will look like exactly but it's coming. People predicting Islamic terror and subprime mortgage collapse, as few as there were, they were dimissed. Dismiss at your risk.

My ideology was mostly supply side panglossian forever prosperity, but people have made other decisions apparently. It's completely out of my hands.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well, get to the federal part.

I did.

Only in your head.

Well, as most people will tell you here, I have no free will and I can't help it.

Was anyone out to kill you?

Well yes.

Stop being a groupie.

Why would I do that?

[Ibrahim]

As I said to YMix earlier, the specific thrust of the Spenglerian demographic dirge changes depending on what you are picking apart.

You're presuming that you progeny do and especially their descendants, if any, will subscribe to your ideology.

An ideology which appears to be a naive mix of social Darwinism with great expectations of schadenfreude reminiscent of those religious extremists who find great pleasure in anticipating the hell awaiting non-believers.

Aside from the comedy of assuming that one's offspring and so on through the ages will follow the same narrow ideology (political, religious, taste in music, anything really) as you do at present, this is typically the end-stage of most Spengler/Steyn school demographers' defense of their theory. "This argument is already won because me and my progeny will march forward into the future and you will die off leave us to our golden age"

But, and this really shouldn't need to be pointed out, many people here or at large might both have children of their own and think Spengler/Steyn demographics are a pile of rubbish.

Even if one were to very naively assume that the Japanese birthrate will remain unchanged forever, it would take a millennium for Japan to be come extinct.

Much to the relief of anime fans.

[Zack Morris]

There is one that is verifiable. That's all we need. Your secular experiment is dying in Europe young man. Your deeply cherished beliefs will die with it.

Which beliefs are dying? Notions of the rights of man in relation to society have been profoundly changed, as have our views of religion and its place in society. There's no going back now. There's no evidence that we are returning to a pre-Enlightenment society.

[Mr. Perfect]

As I said to YMix earlier, the specific thrust of the Spenglerian demographic dirge changes depending on what you are picking apart.

Not really, there are so many aspects to it, it's easy just to talk about one or two at a time. It's a dramatically complex global phenomenon.

Aside from the comedy of assuming that one's offspring and so on through the ages will follow the same narrow ideology (political, religious, taste in music, anything really) as you do at present,

Maybe for your circle, liberals do tend to become more conservative, but not vice versa so your mistake may be an honest error.

this is typically the end-stage of most Spengler/Steyn school demographers' defense of their theory.

"This argument is already won because me and my progeny will march forward into the future and you will die off leave us to our golden age"

But, and this really shouldn't need to be pointed out, many people here or at large might both have children of their own and think Spengler/Steyn demographics are a pile of rubbish.

It's not their demographics, it's data published by the UN and OECD countries.

[Mr. Perfect]

There is one that is verifiable. That's all we need. Your secular experiment is dying in Europe young man. Your deeply cherished beliefs will die with it.

False. Many of those most cherished beliefs have left a profound impact on society and it is too early to estimate their longevity. All of the major religions and their denominations have been forced to adapt and evolve. We will never go back to pre-Enlightenment society.

Oh but we're going to back to pre-central planning/human experiment/chainsaw circumcision society. We are going back to that.

[Zack Morris]

Maybe for your circle, liberals do tend to become more conservative, but not vice versa so your mistake may be an honest error.

Yet, paradoxically, societies on the whole become more liberal. Why is that?

[Mr. Perfect]

Maybe for your circle, liberals do tend to become more conservative, but not vice versa so your mistake may be an honest error.

Yet, paradoxically, societies on the whole become more liberal. Why is that?

The ones dying, and I know why. The one that matters to me, well, another story.

[YMix]

I did.

No, you didn't.

Well, as most people will tell you here, I have no free will and I can't help it.

Ah, well, too bad.

Well yes.

Yet you're still alive.

Why would I do that?

That's the same question I ask myself when you offer unsolicited advice.

[Typhoon]

Maybe for your circle, liberals do tend to become more conservative, but not vice versa so your mistake may be an honest error.

Yet, paradoxically, societies on the whole become more liberal. Why is that?

The ones dying, and I know why. The one that matters to me, well, another story.

What one sees is that these self-applied labels have been essentially flat over two decades.

Reminds me of the "are you in favour of feminism" polls with "feminism" meaning very different things to different people: from "equal pay for equal work" to "mandatory lesbianism".

Especially given that on specific hot issues, the trend is clearly culturally liberal:

Record-High 50% of Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana Use



Half of Americans Support Legal Gay Marriage



This as the US population ages.

So conservatives rising up is a case of premature celebration.

[Typhoon]

I guess I can add this to my list of doomsday predictions that are unlikely to come to pass along with rapture rupture and man made global warming.

Or it could come to pass like the subprime mortgage crisis or tech bubble, or the Great Depression, etc, etc.

The Great Depression lead to the New Deal. Careful for what you ask for.

The US recovered from the Great Depression. One could say with the assistance of Europe and Asia.

All minor events compared to the devastation in Europe post WWII.
Self inflicted, but very real. Germany had been razed to the ground, then partitioned, yet rebuilt as one of the most powerful and advanced economies on the planet.

Even some countries in E Europe, such as Poland, Czech, and the Baltic states have recovered well despite being held back until the 1990's.

So if Europe did not manage to exterminate itself in the 20th century despite unprecedented all-out non-holds-barred efforts, I doubt that a bunch of aging boomers will manage to do so.

The US, on the other hand, has enjoyed every advantage after WWII . . .

You're presuming that you progeny do and especially their descendants, if any, will subscribe to your ideology.

In my family there is amazing ideological homogeneity going back 1 century. I expect it to continue. My children are more conservative than I am. And you only get more conservative as you get older.

What is that disclaimer that US financial companies make, "past performance is no guarantee of future results"

Not wishing any changes to your descendants beliefs, but I've seen enough to no longer surprised by anything.

The aging US population is apparently becoming more culturally tolerant and liberal.

An ideology which appears to be a naive mix of social Darwinism with great expectations of schadenfreude reminiscent of those religious extremists who find great pleasure in anticipating the hell awaiting non-believers.

Could be. When I run into someone like that I'll study it and see what it's made of.

Well you won't have very far to look.

Even if one were to very naively assume that the Japanese birthrate will remain unchanged forever, it would take a millennium for Japan to be come extinct.

Yes, this is where many of you are missing by miles. I don't know that anyone is pointing to population=0, more the horrors of bankrupting governmnents who walk away from nursing homes leaving the people to die and once thriving cities turning into Detroit projected 30 years into the future, first world standards of living turning into 3rd world, peasants essentially living among ruins. It's hard to predict of course all the details, or what it will look like exactly but it's coming. People predicting Islamic terror and subprime mortgage collapse, as few as there were, they were dimissed. Dismiss at your risk.

Last time I checked Detroit was in the USA.

After having placed financial stress on their nations with their demands, the boomer bulge cohort will die out and life will go on. This too will pass.

My ideology was mostly supply side panglossian forever prosperity, but people have made other decisions apparently. It's completely out of my hands.

Panglossian prosperity for me, but not for thee?

[Heracleum Persicum]

.



discovered David's hide about .. postint as AzariLoveIran

a Zionist bee's nest .. dishing it to him

he deleting my posts


.

[Doc]

Maybe for your circle, liberals do tend to become more conservative, but not vice versa so your mistake may be an honest error.

Yet, paradoxically, societies on the whole become more liberal. Why is that?

Hmmm So...... Egypt Saudi Arabia, Yemem, Pakistan, Russia, China....... That is great news Zack !! I was really getting worried !!