On the Nature of Things | Forum

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 4Dj02.html



Now for something about nothing ...
Why Does the World Exist? An Existential Detective Story by Jim Holt.
Reviewed by Spengler

In the first pages of his new book, Jim Holt misquotes my old professor, Columbia University philosopher Sidney Morgenbesser:
"Professor Morgenbesser, why is there something rather than nothing?" a student asked him one day. To which Morgenbesser replied, "Oh, even if there was nothing, you still wouldn't be satisfied."

Hoosiernorm wrote:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 4Dj02.html



Now for something about nothing ...
Why Does the World Exist? An Existential Detective Story by Jim Holt.
Reviewed by Spengler

In the first pages of his new book, Jim Holt misquotes my old professor, Columbia University philosopher Sidney Morgenbesser:
"Professor Morgenbesser, why is there something rather than nothing?" a student asked him one day. To which Morgenbesser replied, "Oh, even if there was nothing, you still wouldn't be satisfied."

Thank You Very Much for the Thread, Hoosier.

I don't think I'm very good with all this philosophizing about nothing....

And from the viewpoint I was raised /reared in, it's not practical.....

IMVHO, the problem for Christians at least...... and maybe Jews, Muslims and even Buddhists & Hindus is long term existence in an unpleasant state be it in this Mappo Near Hell World under G_d's curse or in even less pleasant locales or states............

If all that happens, is that when you die, you are nothing, not aware, feeling no pain, anxiety, fear etc.........
That is not so bad compared to what we are told will happen if we are not lucky (Predestination/Allah's choice) or believe/behave properly
despite our depraved sinful killer ape natures.........

The prospect of Extinction Death may be disappointing and a bit scary....... but not as bad as some of the alternatives....
And it can be combated with preparation and proper attitude.........

But as always, the question is what is the truth and how to know it.........

Or at least how to bet...... And it's NOT as simple as Pascal made it out to be............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s ... evelations

All the nothingness debate.... We exist or we have the illusion we do so we better act like it..............

Is there anything that Spengler can't relate to Faust's Mephistopheles?

Zack Morris wrote:Is there anything that Spengler can't relate to Faust's Mephistopheles?

Thank You Very Much for your post, Zack

Is there anything that Spengler can't relate to Faust's Mephistopheles?

Who the Devil Knows..........

I liked Spengs snack about Something versus Nothing. But isn't it way too serious and connecting way too many serious dots? Can't philosophy just be.. fun?

Parodite wrote:I liked Spengs snack about Something versus Nothing. But isn't it way too serious and connecting way too many serious dots? Can't philosophy just be.. fun?

Well, I can confirm that bits of Being and Nothingness, read aloud, has been used. as least on one occasion, as the means of seduction . . .

m_WRFJwGsbY

Always amused to read a philosophical take on Something and Nothing. Seems to me that philosophy has not made much progress regarding this question over the last three millennia except to make it more obscure.

On the other hand, in the previous century we learned that the physical vacuum - the Nothing, rather than being empty, has a non-zero average value and is thus seething with activity as pairs of matter and antimatter particles are constantly created and annihilated - the Something and that this phenomena can be observed via the Casimir effect.

More recently, a sufficiently high energy density was achieved at the LHC to pop, what is most probably, Higgs bosons out of the vacuum.
The Higgs field being the Something that gives mass to massless particles - the Nothing - resulting in the massive matter [and weak force -> radioactivity] that we are familiar with.

Parodite wrote:I liked Spengs snack about Something versus Nothing. But isn't it way too serious and connecting way too many serious dots? Can't philosophy just be.. fun?

Amen.

My point exactly, once we lose the privledge of constructing sentences that are meaningful only to ourselves, and making other people read or listen to our babble.. it is the end of philosophical...... stuff, that we think may be a existential substitute for... thinking or feeling or something.

That can't be right.

End intellectual censorship!!!

Typhoon wrote:Well, I can confirm that bits of Being and Nothingness, read aloud, has been used. as least on one occasion, as the means of seduction . . .

[youtube]Monty Python[youtube]

Didn't see this one yet...

Always amused to read a philosophical take on Something and Nothing. Seems to me that philosophy has not made much progress regarding this question over the last three millennia except to make it more obscure.

Quite right. The search for nothing is also rather precarious... to say the least.

On the other hand, in the previous century we learned that the physical vacuum - the Nothing, rather than being empty, has a non-zero average value and is thus seething with activity as pairs of matter and antimatter particles are constantly created and annihilated - the Something and that this phenomena can be observed via the Casimir effect.

More recently, a sufficiently high energy density was achieved at the LHC to pop, what is most probably, Higgs bosons out of the vacuum.
The Higgs field being the Something that gives mass to massless particles - the Nothing - resulting in the massive matter [and weak force -> radioactivity] that we are familiar with.

Yes it's very interesting. Saw a picture of a very old and happy Mr. Higgs. Again the search for nothing has been falsified.

Parodite wrote:I liked Spengs snack about Something versus Nothing. But isn't it way too serious and connecting way too many serious dots? Can't philosophy just be.. fun?

Thank You Very Much for your Post, Parodite.

Since you asked..............

IF2RYhNhBdw


Note the Golden Girl bureaucrat..............

Thank you Very Much for the Thread, HoosierNorm.

Remember a song that could serve as the music for this thread........

Thread Theme Song...Nothing from Nothing by Billy Preston &/or Brenda Lee

Studio.......

KQ5-BTdcqjk

Live.....

G_DV54ddNHE

Lyrics

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing,
Ya gotta have something
If ya wanna be with me

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing,
And ya gotta have something
If ya wann be with me
Yeah!

I'm not trying to be your hero,
Cause that's ego,
Its too high for me
I'm not trying to be your highness,
Cause that's a minus
And that's too low to see
Whoa!

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing,
And I ain't stuffing believe you me
Don't you remember I told you
That I'm a soldier in the war on poverty
Yeah!

I said nothing from nothing leaves nothing
And I want something
If ya wanna be with me
Let me tell ya that,

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
And this girls gotta have something
If ya wanna be with me
Yeah!

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing,
And honey I ain't stuffing believe you me
Yeah!

Nothing from nothing leaves ya nothing
And ya gotta have something
If ya wanna be with me.
phone

http://lyrics.wikia.com/Brenda_Lee:Nothing_From_Nothing

Nothing From Nothing lyrics

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me

I'm not tryin' to be your hero
'Cause that zero is too cold for me, brrr
I'm not tryin' to be your highness
'Cause that minus is too low to see, yeah

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
And I'm not stuffin'
Believe you me
Don't you remember I told ya
I'm a soldier in the war on poverty, yeah
Yes, I am

[Instrumental Interlude]

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me

You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
You gotta bring me somethin' girl
If you wanna be with me

(From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/b/billy-pre ... yrics.html)

Parodite wrote:

Typhoon wrote:Well, I can confirm that bits of Being and Nothingness, read aloud, has been used. as least on one occasion, as the means of seduction . . .

[youtube]Monty Python[youtube]

Didn't see this one yet...

Always amused to read a philosophical take on Something and Nothing. Seems to me that philosophy has not made much progress regarding this question over the last three millennia except to make it more obscure.

Quite right. The search for nothing is also rather precarious... to say the least.

On the other hand, in the previous century we learned that the physical vacuum - the Nothing, rather than being empty, has a non-zero average value and is thus seething with activity as pairs of matter and antimatter particles are constantly created and annihilated - the Something and that this phenomena can be observed via the Casimir effect.

More recently, a sufficiently high energy density was achieved at the LHC to pop, what is most probably, Higgs bosons out of the vacuum.
The Higgs field being the Something that gives mass to massless particles - the Nothing - resulting in the massive matter [and weak force -> radioactivity] that we are familiar with.

Yes it's very interesting. Saw a picture of a very old and happy Mr. Higgs. Again the search for nothing has been falsified.

Thanks Parodite...

"Ya lookin for nuthin? Hell, why dint ya say so? Gotta pocketful right here.... take all ya want...

But will the search for nothing be fruitful...?

Or has it already been found and just not recognized....?

Once found, who gets to name it...?

Where we will keep it...?

Thanks MG, excellent tune for the thread indeed.
SM no thanks.. I have tons of nothing already. (contact my bank)

Parodite wrote:Thanks MG, excellent tune for the thread indeed.
SM no thanks.. I have tons of nothing already. (contact my bank)

Thank you VERY Much for your Post and Kind Words, Parodite

Glad you liked the tune.....

Your Friend,
MG

I know that Spengler is trying to come off as a deep thinker who is shaking people out of their complacency when he brings up being vs. nothingness, morality, Faust, or ye olde Dance of Death.

Problem is he sounds just like every goth girl I knew in by first year of university. He probably writes these essays wearing a Nightmare Before Christmas t-shirt and an ankh necklace.

do you imagine these things before you write 'em???2?.........><".......

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:do you imagine these things before you write 'em???2?.........><".......

Need brain bleach . . . ><

Paul Valéry used to say that "Dieu a tout fait de rien. Mais le rien perce": God made everything out of nothing. But the nothingness shows through

This is not to say that I think that this feeling would reveal a profound truth. I believe it to be but an illusion.
Still, it can be experienced nonetheless.

Alexis wrote:Paul Valéry used to say that "Dieu a tout fait de rien. Mais le rien perce": God made everything out of nothing. But the nothingness shows through

This is not to say that I think that this feeling would reveal a profound truth. I believe it to be but an illusion.
Still, it can be experienced nonetheless.

Well, it was Georges Lemaître, a physicist and priest, that first showed that the solution of the Einstein equations gives an expanding universe



and conceived the idea of the Big Bang singularity - something [the Universe] out of nothing.

The nothingness shows through in the form of the remaining 3K cosmic background radiation.