Faith and modernity

[Heracleum Persicum]

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any woman who does not max sexual pleasure to her husband goes to hell, is in Koran

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in this weekz game of 'guess the genitals on the prophet' we have ...

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When it comes to sex, everyone is an expert.

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This not at all about sex .. this pure theology


Debate is about the attitude of Christianity versus Islam towards "pleasures in life", Sex being one of them.

Christianity does not promote, push individual to enjoy "pleasures of life" .. that is why Christianity is Tristesse .. the opposite true with Islam.

Interesting to observe Christian cathedrals, top of the entry, big statues with big swords, around periphery wild animal statue (supposedly guarding) .. one has a scary feeling .. is intentional .. scaring the illiterate vassal into obeying.

In Islam, things take more a joyous shape .. things become more like partying .. Even Hadj is sort of Garden Party sentiment, joyous

The difference comes mainly from Christians thinking they must suffer for Christ paying for their sins (stipulating they sinners) .. no such thought in Islam (you sinner only doing bad thing), no aware Moh paying for other's sin, on the contrary he had fun with all woman he could have his hands on .. he explicitly said I have no control of my dick (others now payin for HIS sin )

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[Nonc Hilaire]

HP, you are confusing Christianity with stoicism and epicurianism.

Which Christian author are you reading is espouses this rejection of pleasure? I think it is simply a misperception on your part.

[Typhoon]

Lord make me chaste, but not yet.

~ Augustine of Hippo

[Nonc Hilaire]

Lord make me chaste, but not yet.

~ Augustine of Hippo

Great quote, and one I can identify with.

The question is does Christianity reject pleasure, and the answer is absolutely no.

[Heracleum Persicum]

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HP, you are confusing Christianity with stoicism and epicurianism.

Which Christian author are you reading is espouses this rejection of pleasure? I think it is simply a misperception on your part.

Have to admit, my knowledge of theological field very limited, have not read anything in that field.

But, a very keen observer

Lord make me chaste, but not yet.

~ Augustine of Hippo

Great quote, and one I can identify with.

The question is does Christianity reject pleasure, and the answer is absolutely no.

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NH, facts on the ground, many facts, unfortunately, attest "Christianity reject (physical) pleasure".

I have been in all European Cathedrals, have even written a paper about them, non gives you a feeling of joy or happiness, cold fearful sad places .. Not so historic mosques.

Reason is in the heart of the matter .. Islam is not a "spiritual" or Philosophical "religion", that bit spirituality and philosophical dept Islam might claim is entirely from Persian Philosophers who tried to "spin" a "primitive" Arabian tribal movement into something more .. Rumi comet to mind.

Islam an Arabian (as good as you can get with that folks) "Confucianism", earthly rules for a society, from top to bottom, everything pretty much "regulated", regulation for doing business, taxes (flat rate, 20%), marriage, birth, burial, responsibilities of (and how to treat) wife/husband, a very big chapter (even in Koran) dedicated to SEX, sex practices, when, how, do and not do (don't know of any "not do") and Joy of life, having fun and and and

Funny - mad mullahs now trying to push up Iranian birthrate, marriage, have introduced SEX education .. many clips in uTube, mad mullahs giving SEX advise in front of girls and boys (probably new wed) .. also .. woman give SEX advice to (religious) woman in Mashad (all in Farsi) .. I have not seen such explicit sex talk, point blank saying unbelievable stuff, in detail advising the colour of lingerie and tung and BJ and and and .. BJ is not "Haraam" and swallowing is OK , anal is not "Haraam" too .. between man and woman, pretty much everything is welcomed .. and .. funny part is, always citing Moh what he supposedly had said to that subject, Moh for sure was fun guy

Christianity on the other side is much more philosophical .. Suffering can lead to salvation .. central of this thinking is, we all sinners, Jesus suffered for our sins, and, achieving "salvation" is through "suffering"

A Persian (mongul) king, a devote Muslim, built a "Slide" in his Haarem, his wives standing in line to slide down the slide, him sitting at the bottom end of the slide legs apart waiting for the BANG .. this not quite exactly Opus Dei

Agree, this not the norm, but, spirit and direction of things quite clear.

The reason for all the above is the essence of this .. Moh just came to "regulate", "clear cut" laws .. zero to do with salvation or morality or spirituality .. Jesus on the other side, Christianity, afaik, does not have any "regulation" (those silly things RCC introduced just their own making), it was more morality.

That leads us to how "AND WHY" Christianity came into being ..

IMVVHO, the story goes as follows : A few very smart Rabbies, realized Judaism has not the potential to become "cosmopolitan" (it was a tribal religion) .. Judaism, very similar to Islam (Islam being a copy of Judaism), is a tribal religion, basically all "regulation", and, lack of any Spirituality and philosophical dept (not so Zoroastrianism), there is no "conversion" in Judaism (4get that rubbish "reform Judaism", it ain't), you must be from the Hebrew tribe.

The wise Rabbies are those Saint Peter etc etc .. that was the intention and the theory

But, Christianity we know today, is Christianity of Middle Ages .. and that is a different story .. the crooks hijacked it, otherwise colonialism, slavery, Hitler and many other things of that sort can not be explained.


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[Mr. Perfect]

Not really, no.

[Typhoon]

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But, Christianity we know today, is Christianity of Middle Ages .. and that is a different story .. the crooks hijacked it, otherwise colonialism, slavery, Hitler and many other things of that sort can not be explained.

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Did you not study world history in school?

Much of the history of all humanity is one of occupation, slavery, and attempted and/or successful genocide.

[Heracleum Persicum]

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But, Christianity we know today, is Christianity of Middle Ages .. and that is a different story .. the crooks hijacked it, otherwise colonialism, slavery, Hitler and many other things of that sort can not be explained.

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Did you not study world history in school ?

Much of the history of all humanity is one of occupation, slavery, and attempted and/or successful genocide.

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That differentiate Persia from rest of the world

No such things in Persian history

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[Heracleum Persicum]

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What Americans Get Wrong About Porn

If we want an alternative to the vision of sex presented in pornography, we need to start by having open, honest and unashamed talks about sex. We need to stop treating sex as a taboo topic, and start treating it as an ordinary aspect of life, one that young people should be educated about in all its weird, wonderful, risky and rewarding complexity. If we create a culture where sexuality is accepted as a healthy, positive part of life, then we’ll be able to appreciate porn for the wild, unrealistic fantasy that it was always intended to be.

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[Nonc Hilaire]

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But, Christianity we know today, is Christianity of Middle Ages .. and that is a different story .. the crooks hijacked it, otherwise colonialism, slavery, Hitler and many other things of that sort can not be explained.

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Did you not study world history in school ?

Much of the history of all humanity is one of occupation, slavery, and attempted and/or successful genocide.

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That differentiate Persia from rest of the world.


No such things in Persian history

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The Babylonian exile was well documented. Persia kept excellent records of their conquests and occupations.

[Heracleum Persicum]

, , ,

But, Christianity we know today, is Christianity of Middle Ages .. and that is a different story .. the crooks hijacked it, otherwise colonialism, slavery, Hitler and many other things of that sort can not be explained.

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Did you not study world history in school ?

Much of the history of all humanity is one of occupation, slavery, and attempted and/or successful genocide.

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That differentiate Persia from rest of the world.


No such things in Persian history

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The Babylonian exile was well documented. Persia kept excellent records of their conquests and occupations.


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True , yes , all chronicled , day by day

And that proves what I said above.

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[Parodite]

vuomB-SPYuk

[Simple Minded]

vuomB-SPYuk

Love it. Occupational hazard of trying to save someone....... they might try to save you!

Depending upon my mood, sometimes my favorite reply to "have you heard the word of god lately?" is, "Yes, I was talking to him the other day. He said he never heard of you!"

[Typhoon]

vuomB-SPYuk

Love it. Occupational hazard of trying to save someone....... they might try to save you!

Depending upon my mood, sometimes my favorite reply to "have you heard the word of god lately?" is, "Yes, I was talking to him the other day. He said he never heard of you!"

Very good. Will remember that one.

I was walking with a colleague along Michigan Avenue. There were Orthodox Jews standing at the corners once every few blocks.
I forget the name of the sect, but it is one that proselytizes to other Jews. They were wishing Jews a Happy Chanukkah.
One asked my colleague, "Are you Jewish?"
My colleague replied, "Not yet."

[Simple Minded]

Very good. Will remember that one.

I was walking with a colleague along Michigan Avenue. There were Orthodox Jews standing at the corners once every few blocks.
I forget the name of the sect, but it is one that proselytizes to other Jews. They were wishing Jews a Happy Chanukkah.
One asked my colleague, "Are you Jewish?"
My colleague replied, "Not yet."

Reminds me of the reply to "So, this is your hometown. Have you lived here all of your life?"
"Not yet."

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Spiritually, we are close to broke

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[Typhoon]

Freya India | Our New Religion Isn't Enough

Who is God?

[Parodite]

Imagine she is your girlfriend or wife

https://youtu.be/bP2oPNV98qI?si=9v68EdtdzG_3lNbb

[Parodite]

Ayaan H A vs Richard D, worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/DBsHdHMvucs?si=8n2ShKoLrDOqTQti

Richard D. shows he cannot inspire beyond reason, empirical science and just repeats same old narrow criticisms. Justified, but chewed over and digested enough.

Faith vs reason, or complementary. Old discussion.

I would define the modern mix: reason, science, arts, emotion, morals, mystery and faith.

As for the necessity of a healthy religious tradition like Christianity that Ayaan believes is a truth in and of itself, is not very obvious but it can be a personal conviction.

A shortcoming of Richard Ds claim that sticking to hardcore secularism and rejecting all metaphysics is good for everybody, is that there will always be a natural desire for metaphysics: life often sucks, we all will die, the universe is indifferent, and when you think with reason about existence: it makes no sense at all.

Why exists something rather than nothing?
Why is my brain conscious of itself? Or is something else going on entirely?
Why am I not the conscious self of somebody else?
What do we know anyways, scientifically?
I came from nowhere before birth, and go to nowhere after death.. really, then why oh why?
With so much suffering, always around the corner, with no chance to win...why even be here?

Above questions along these lines, are IMHO completely legit to ask. Existence cannot be understood, explained rationally. So are consciousness and the questions that arise within each individual self-aware person.

Conlusion: life = voodoo. Deeply strange, magical, ineffible.

Ultimately, I don't live in some reasonable, rational, scientifically explainable universe. Although a lot of how-things-work are being discovered, used for tool creation and navigating from a to b, the womb of existence, ground of being, is voodoo-magic, connot be grasped nor contained by the reasoning mind and its accumulated empirical knowledge.

The question for Richard D. therefor should be: if life, existence is ultimately magical and cannot be explained nor contained by science...what else can your reasonable mind do but humbly bow to the Great Magic Mystery, that some prefer to call God?

[Nonc Hilaire]

I would define the modern mix: reason, science, arts, emotion, morals, mystery and faith.

You forgot logic. Logic is necessary to establish the axioms and boundaries of reason. Without logic, reason quickly becomes unreasonable. Logic is rarely applicable, but necessary to define areas that are mentally out of bounds.

God is axiomatic. Any reference to zero or infinity is god. So are asymptotes.

Scientism uses semantics to avoid the necessity of using the “G” word. ‘Trillions of years…” “Vast expanses of space…” “p<10^64…”.

[Parodite]

Logic, math, infinities, asymptotes...to some are meaningful, but I wouldn't look for the G-spot there

Reason + science + arts + emotion + morals + mystery + faith, are more like organic relationships, aspects that are not in a position to falsify or validate each other.

One could argue that reason and science should be the judge of all others, but that would be as irrational as saying that vision should decide whether what you hear or feel is true or false.

From the POV of vision, sound doesn't exist. Art is not science, science is not emotion, emotion is not faith etc. They all relate: how is an interesting question. In what language the answer can be given... maybe just humming Ohmmmmmmmmm comes closest.

R. Dawkins wants everything to pass his truth-test, but that is itself a delusional requirement. As delusional as efforts trying to prove the existence of God with math. But he is entirely correct saying that believing in miracles like Jesus not having a biological father, died 100% but then resurrected... is idiotic.

Ayaan HA says she "decided to believe" those miracles; me thinks that's the sad reality of the Christian tradition. If Jesus wasn't a miracle man, not born from a virgin, not walking on water, not dead and resurrected again, the entire project would be considered nill and void. That always is a regrettable nuclear bomb under its own foundations. I see no added value to this type of self-imposed masochistic torture.

However, a religion without koo-koo miracles not necessarily leads to a-theism, secular humanism; existence is the biggest and most persistent miracle of all. Always there, every second of the day. How much miracle you need?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

It's a miracle that all these spinning plates can be passed off as communicable reasoning.

[Typhoon]

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Scientism uses semantics to avoid the necessity of using the “G” word. ‘Trillions of years…” “Vast expanses of space…” “p<10^64…”.

I assume that the "G" word refers to the Abrahamic God and not to the standard symbol for the gravitational constant: G.

"Vast expanses of space"

Are you claiming that the observable universe is not vast?

The current observable universe is about 94 billion light years.
I would argue that this measurement would qualify as vast.

‘Trillions of years…”

Curious at to in what context you have come across this statement.
The age of the earth is estimated to be 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years and the age of the universe is estimated to be 13.787 ± 0.020 billion years.

“p<10^64…”.

I have no idea what this mean as p, the probability of an event, is between 0 and 1 so p is always < 10^64.

Anyways, there is no need to invoke the Abrahamic God in any of your examples all of which are science based on measurements in our physical universe.

Rather scientism is statements such as "97% of scientists agree that . . .", "the "scientific consensus is 97% that . . .", "the science is settled", and so on, which replaces the scientific method based on experimental or observational evidence with an appeal to authority - the opinion of scientists.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Outrageously big numbers are reasonable, but not logical.

Reason and logic are different processes. God is axiomatic and outside of measurement and causation.

Things exist, therefore a first cause must exist.