North America

[Hans Bulvai]

My dear Marcus,

I'll try to give you an answer based on what I know and live.

The Hijab is mentioned in the Quran but not as a burkha or shadour. Hijab literarily means a 'concealer' derived from the verb 'Yahjob'.
The Quran says:

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, ...

24:31

So as you see, the requirement is to guard that which is precisely female that can cause lust. The breasts, neck, etc... The debates still rage as to whether the hair does need to be covered but the jury is still out. In the meantime, women in Islam feel that the requirement is to cover their hair. Maybe it is because the Quran commanded the Prophet's wives to cover up and you know how popular he is with Muslims... My wife wears a hijab, my mother and grandmother, who passed recently, do not. Belief is in piety and actions.

Cinci is right about what he said. What you see in walking tents is more cultural than religious. Besides, the hijab predates Islam. How else do you explain nuns.
Women who marry their rapists do so, or in some cases coerced, because of societal reasons more than Islamic. In most cases, it saves the woman from death and is a form of punishment for the rapists. Having him own up to his crime. It also saves a human life in the form of a fetus. Ideally rape would not exist, but it does and this is a way of dealing with it. Is it right? Ask the victim if she would rather be married off or killed? I agree with neither but it is what it is. A solution made to deal with a view that we will never understand.

Car bombs? One can argue illegal invasions, savage sanctions, support for dictators whose injustices are an extremist's membership application. Do you think Afghanis would resist less if they were not Muslim? The Quran says resist but do not transgress. It says killing an innocent is like killing all of humanity. Is it really Islam's fault that some will take an extreme view of what constitutes innocent? Blowing up an airliner with Western passengers for example? For the last 10 years, I have heard the equivalent of those passengers being called collateral damage because they are Muslim. Does it really matter if it is done in Christianity's name or not? These people fight in the name of Islam because it is all they know. But really they are fighting for their own existence. It could have been anything else. How about the Jews that claim to own borders that are not even defined in their own books...

You ask about the contrary voice. How about the rest of the billion plus that are not engaged in nose cutting, car bombings, etc... etc... I can't include the Burkha and Hijab in there because chances are most women choose to wear it. It is a choice and men are not allowed to force their women to wear a hijab even if it does get done. And many have and do speak out against all kinds of actions done in Islam's name but the agenda driven powers that be that own the truly rare resource otherwise known as the airwaves don't want you to hear it. Saudi Arabia, as the dear Colonel pointed out, plays a very negative role in all of this as well. It is easy to manipulate the poor. As Ali (not our own) rightly said, if poverty was a man I would have killed him.

Could a woman be a good Muslim woman without the Hijab? Absolutely. You are judged by your actions and faith. IS the woman in France, Turkey or Syria that is NOT allowed to wear a hijab any less Muslim than her Indonesian counterpart? No. And while we are on the subject, where are the voices cheering women's freedom in those instances that the Hijab is forbidden?

If an emphasis is present and strong, it is because some see it as part of their identity.

But I will leave you with some versus of the Quran in regards to women and equality.
What applies to men, applies to women; equally.
Please read through them and give me your opinion.

2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.

An-Noor (The Light)

15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
16 If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
...
19 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.
20 But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?

An-Nisa (The Women)

73 (With the result) that Allah has to punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Unbelievers, men and women, and Allah turns in Mercy to the Believers, men and women: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Al-Ahzab (The Coalition)

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Found the parts of the Koran you quoted such as the 100 lashes for fornication interesting.

Reminded me of the United Submitters...... basically Koran ONLY muslims without the name............

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Submitters_International

I believe the Jewish equivalent would be Karaite Jews but

the Koran BY ITSELF is not as into capital punishment as the Tanakh.........

Problem may be that AIUI most Muslims also rely on the Hadiths and Sunnah & Fiqh etc.............. And that stuff is has a higher Death content........

As an aside, I wonder how many lashes the average human can take without major risk of death.......... Jewish law set it at 39 max supposedly optimax for max pain and min risk but the devil is no doubt in the details, type of lash, force of use, done at once or in installments etc..........

More interesting, the 80 lashes for the man who falsely accuses a chaste woman of bad behavior. Not exactly the epitome of the anti-women religion some claim it to be. Actually, through out the Quran, and Hadith, protection for women and their rights is well documented and very clear. So it does not take lightly to whoring women, or men; semantics. Wasn't it Spengler that always argued a nation faces ruin when it begins to sell its women?

This Khalifa guy reminds me of a MR. David Koresh. We all know what happened to him in God's country. Went up in Satan's flames. He could have had a point had he not objected to using the Prophet's name in prayer knowing the first requirement of a Muslim is the Shahada. Then there was the whole he is a messenger thing that just really tarnished any credibility he had. But in the end, whether he was who he said he is, he was taken by probably the same mentallity that hung Jesus; granted he can never be a Isa.

And yes, the hadith does have a whole lot more killing in it and also when not to do it but that's not the extent of it. It has everything in it from how to be clean to how not to try and genuflect a poor blind guy, in the Capitalistic sense.

I think that the idea behind the 100 lashes is death. Just ask a Pakistani who's back saw a few lashes with some bare 1 awg power wire.

[monster_gardener]

My dear Marcus,

I'll try to give you an answer based on what I know and live.

The Hijab is mentioned in the Quran but not as a burkha or shadour. Hijab literarily means a 'concealer' derived from the verb 'Yahjob'.
The Quran says:

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, ...

24:31

So as you see, the requirement is to guard that which is precisely female that can cause lust. The breasts, neck, etc... The debates still rage as to whether the hair does need to be covered but the jury is still out. In the meantime, women in Islam feel that the requirement is to cover their hair. Maybe it is because the Quran commanded the Prophet's wives to cover up and you know how popular he is with Muslims... My wife wears a hijab, my mother and grandmother, who passed recently, do not. Belief is in piety and actions.

Cinci is right about what he said. What you see in walking tents is more cultural than religious. Besides, the hijab predates Islam. How else do you explain nuns.
Women who marry their rapists do so, or in some cases coerced, because of societal reasons more than Islamic. In most cases, it saves the woman from death and is a form of punishment for the rapists. Having him own up to his crime. It also saves a human life in the form of a fetus. Ideally rape would not exist, but it does and this is a way of dealing with it. Is it right? Ask the victim if she would rather be married off or killed? I agree with neither but it is what it is. A solution made to deal with a view that we will never understand.

Car bombs? One can argue illegal invasions, savage sanctions, support for dictators whose injustices are an extremist's membership application. Do you think Afghanis would resist less if they were not Muslim? The Quran says resist but do not transgress. It says killing an innocent is like killing all of humanity. Is it really Islam's fault that some will take an extreme view of what constitutes innocent? Blowing up an airliner with Western passengers for example? For the last 10 years, I have heard the equivalent of those passengers being called collateral damage because they are Muslim. Does it really matter if it is done in Christianity's name or not? These people fight in the name of Islam because it is all they know. But really they are fighting for their own existence. It could have been anything else. How about the Jews that claim to own borders that are not even defined in their own books...

You ask about the contrary voice. How about the rest of the billion plus that are not engaged in nose cutting, car bombings, etc... etc... I can't include the Burkha and Hijab in there because chances are most women choose to wear it. It is a choice and men are not allowed to force their women to wear a hijab even if it does get done. And many have and do speak out against all kinds of actions done in Islam's name but the agenda driven powers that be that own the truly rare resource otherwise known as the airwaves don't want you to hear it. Saudi Arabia, as the dear Colonel pointed out, plays a very negative role in all of this as well. It is easy to manipulate the poor. As Ali (not our own) rightly said, if poverty was a man I would have killed him.

Could a woman be a good Muslim woman without the Hijab? Absolutely. You are judged by your actions and faith. IS the woman in France, Turkey or Syria that is NOT allowed to wear a hijab any less Muslim than her Indonesian counterpart? No. And while we are on the subject, where are the voices cheering women's freedom in those instances that the Hijab is forbidden?

If an emphasis is present and strong, it is because some see it as part of their identity.

But I will leave you with some versus of the Quran in regards to women and equality.
What applies to men, applies to women; equally.
Please read through them and give me your opinion.

2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.

An-Noor (The Light)

15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
16 If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
...
19 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.
20 But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?

An-Nisa (The Women)

73 (With the result) that Allah has to punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Unbelievers, men and women, and Allah turns in Mercy to the Believers, men and women: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Al-Ahzab (The Coalition)

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Found the parts of the Koran you quoted such as the 100 lashes for fornication interesting.

Reminded me of the United Submitters...... basically Koran ONLY muslims without the name............

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Submitters_International

I believe the Jewish equivalent would be Karaite Jews but

the Koran BY ITSELF is not as into capital punishment as the Tanakh.........

Problem may be that AIUI most Muslims also rely on the Hadiths and Sunnah & Fiqh etc.............. And that stuff is has a higher Death content........

As an aside, I wonder how many lashes the average human can take without major risk of death.......... Jewish law set it at 39 max supposedly optimax for max pain and min risk but the devil is no doubt in the details, type of lash, force of use, done at once or in installments etc..........

More interesting, the 80 lashes for the man who falsely accuses a chaste woman of bad behavior. Not exactly the epitome of the anti-women religion some claim it to be. Actually, through out the Quran, and Hadith, protection for women and their rights is well documented and very clear. So it does not take lightly to whoring women, or men; semantics. Wasn't it Spengler that always argued a nation faces ruin when it begins to sell its women?

This Khalifa guy reminds me of a MR. David Koresh. We all know what happened to him in God's country. Went up in Satan's flames. He could have had a point had he not objected to using the Prophet's name in prayer knowing the first requirement of a Muslim is the Shahada. Then there was the whole he is a messenger thing that just really tarnished any credibility he had. But in the end, whether he was who he said he is, he was taken by probably the same mentallity that hung Jesus; granted he can never be a Isa.

And yes, the hadith does have a whole lot more killing in it and also when not to do it but that's not the extent of it. It has everything in it from how to be clean to how not to try and genuflect a poor blind guy, in the Capitalistic sense.

I think that the idea behind the 100 lashes is death. Just ask a Pakistani who's back saw a few lashes with some bare 1 awg power wire.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Comparing Dr. Khalifa to David Koresh is an interesting comparison......... there are parallels though the Koresh situation was unfortunately much more exaggerated/wholesale...........

Both Christianity and Islam claim their messiah/prophet/revelation was the last............ and more prophets, at least, keep showing up...........

Jews are still waiting for their Messiah to show up........

And the Christians for Christ's return.........

And Muslims for the Madhi and whoever Isa Is ...............

And Hindus for Kalki/Shiva............ Scary Stuff...... Most not ready for that last big dance yet.............

FWIW some Buddhists claim that the savior Bodhisattvas keep coming back again and again to the point that, figuratively at least, there is no point on Earth where they have not died trying to save someone.......

[Typhoon]

Canandian - American relations:

Ecnomist | Partying like it’s 1812

[monster_gardener]

My dear Marcus,

........................


I think that the idea behind the 100 lashes is death. Just ask a Pakistani who's back saw a few lashes with some bare 1 awg power wire.

Thank you Very Much again for your post, Hans...............

As you note, some lashes are deadly......

AIUI with the Romans: flagrum (deadly) vs. flagellum (painful)

Again AIUI in modern times lashing is often done on the installment plan ......................

More survivable but can be more pain..........

That can apply to things other than lashes............

Remember the case of a young man who killed a young lady in an auto accident: reckless or drunk driving..........

Part of the punishment was sending $1 in compensation to the family on each anniversary of the accident...........

Family asked for this in lieu of jail time...................

Wanted to make sure he would NEVER forget what he had done.............

According to the news report, it crippled the young man to the point that after a number of years he just was unable to do it any more................

......................

[Hans Bulvai]

Comparing Dr. Khalifa to David Koresh is an interesting comparison......... there are parallels though the Koresh situation was unfortunately much more exaggerated/wholesale...........

...

So Koresh died for even a lesser reason than Dr. K's?

[Hans Bulvai]

My dear Marcus,

........................


I think that the idea behind the 100 lashes is death. Just ask a Pakistani who's back saw a few lashes with some bare 1 awg power wire.

Thank you Very Much again for your post, Hans...............

As you note, some lashes are deadly......

AIUI with the Romans: flagrum (deadly) vs. flagellum (painful)

Again AIUI in modern times lashing is often done on the installment plan ......................

More survivable but can be more pain..........

That can apply to things other than lashes............

Remember the case of a young man who killed a young lady in an auto accident: reckless or drunk driving..........

Part of the punishment was sending $1 in compensation to the family on each anniversary of the accident...........

Family asked for this in lieu of jail time...................

Wanted to make sure he would NEVER forget what he had done.............

According to the news report, it crippled the young man to the point that after a number of years he just was unable to do it any more................

......................

I don't know about the installment plan for the lashes in Islam. Worth investigating though. I would think that it is all or nothing but I don't know.

[AzariLoveIran]

BrhA0sEkuaM





.

[monster_gardener]

BrhA0sEkuaM





.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Azari.

and a bit of truth.........

Canada is sometimes described as America without caffeine.........

But too much caffeine can be a bad thing.............

Here's some more.........

qTKk7HjZVe0

[monster_gardener]

My dear Marcus,

........................


I think that the idea behind the 100 lashes is death. Just ask a Pakistani who's back saw a few lashes with some bare 1 awg power wire.

Thank you Very Much again for your post, Hans...............

As you note, some lashes are deadly......

AIUI with the Romans: flagrum (deadly) vs. flagellum (painful)

Again AIUI in modern times lashing is often done on the installment plan ......................

More survivable but can be more pain..........

That can apply to things other than lashes............

Remember the case of a young man who killed a young lady in an auto accident: reckless or drunk driving..........

Part of the punishment was sending $1 in compensation to the family on each anniversary of the accident...........

Family asked for this in lieu of jail time...................

Wanted to make sure he would NEVER forget what he had done.............

According to the news report, it crippled the young man to the point that after a number of years he just was unable to do it any more................

......................

I don't know about the installment plan for the lashes in Islam. Worth investigating though. I would think that it is all or nothing but I don't know.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Have found this reference..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation#Shiite

Flogging is a form of punishment used under Islamic Sharia law. It is the prescribed punishment (hadd) for offences including fornication, alcohol use and slander and is also widely favoured as a discretionary punishment (ta'zir) for many offences, such as violating gender interaction laws. Punishment is normally carried out in public. In Islam, lashes for punishment for women are often performed with the Qu'ran under one arm to minimise the swing and as a reminder of the source of legislation. They are not supposed to leave permanent scars, and when the number of lashes is high, are frequently done in batches to minimise risk of harm.[14] Such protection does not exist in the case of lashing for men.

Maybe the Shiite men are so tough they don't need to do it in batches.......... do it voluntary........... are used to it already.... see below

In some Shi'ite communities worldwide, Shi'ites march in massive parades while flogging themselves on the back with knives, blades and chains every year to commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein. Some of these self-flogging rituals include zanjeer zani, talwar zani, qama ka matam, and tatbir. This happens in many countries of the world including India, Pakistan, Iraq and Lebanon. In Iran there is an unannounced ban on the use of knives and sharp blades for Mätam or flagellation but chains can be used. In hardline Salafi countries like Saudi Arabia these practises are strictly forbidden in every form, which, by many Shi'ites is considered a severe violation of Human Rights and religious freedom.

Afghan_Shiites_performing_self_flagellation_in_2009

Have read more in the past.......... Think it was Saudi Arabia & a man............ Those Saudis may be a bit softer than the Shiities

[Hans Bulvai]

I have written it before, I saw this as a young kid when my father and I took a wrong turn in south Beirut back in the day.
It was quite the experience for a little boy. For sure you can feel the intensity in the air... and see the blood o n the asphalt.

[Demon of Undoing]

I have written it before, I saw this as a young kid when my father and I took a wrong turn in south Beirut back in the day.
It was quite the experience for a little boy. For sure you can feel the intensity in the air... and see the blood o n the asphalt.

So, what's it like to crap in a car?

[AzariLoveIran]

.

"Tighter lending standards and widespread expectations of further declines in home values have been depressing home sales on a larger scale,"

.

. . 19 of the 20 major U.S. metropolitan markets covered by the indices in November saw prices decline from October, with just Phoenix showing an increase. Atlanta, Las Vegas, Seattle and Tampa posted new index level lows.

"The only positive for the month was Phoenix, one of the hardest hit in recent years," Mr. Blitzer said. "Annual rates were little better as 18 cities and both composites were negative." Just Detroit and Washington D.C. notched year-over-year gains.

The 10-city and 20-city composites posted annual returns of negative 3.6% and negative 3.7%, respectively, compared with November 2010. Hard-hit Atlanta had the worst year-over-year performance, declining 11.8%.

.

this thing not done yet .. will last a generation


.

[Hans Bulvai]

I have written it before, I saw this as a young kid when my father and I took a wrong turn in south Beirut back in the day.
It was quite the experience for a little boy. For sure you can feel the intensity in the air... and see the blood o n the asphalt.

So, what's it like to crap in a car?

We were on foot!

The crapping in the car was a college experience!

[Azrael]

The Canada Party guy comes across as a bit arrogant and not all that funny (maybe a little here and there, but not enough to justify the claim that Canadians are funny).

In my experience, Canadians are less polite and not as funny as they think they are.

Oh, and I've never sewn a Canadian flag on my backpack when I've traveled overseas. That's a pretty low blow. They should be thankful that we're not as imperialist as they say.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

The Canada Party guy comes across as a bit arrogant and not all that funny (maybe a little here and there, but not enough to justify the claim that Canadians are funny).

In my experience, Canadians are less polite and not as funny as they think they are.

Oh, and I've never sewn a Canadian flag on my backpack when I've traveled overseas. That's a pretty low blow. They should be thankful that we're not as imperialist as they say.

.

I like Americans more then Canadians


.

[AzariLoveIran]

47hvENEM8yo

[AzariLoveIran]

.


The reality of America’s decline ... a new essay that argues the future of the US will hinge on taking an alternative foreign policy path

.

But the book’s real subject is American exceptionalism. Mr Kagan believes that it is largely up to Americans to decide whether their country’s dominance will continue. In a clear echo of the author’s criticisms of Bill Clinton in the 1990s, Mr Kagan fears the US is losing its will for muscular world leadership. “In the end, the decision is in the hands of Americans,” he writes. “Decline, as Charles Krauthammer [a commentator] has observed, is a choice.”

[..]

And here we arrive at the book’s main puzzle. Mr Kagan denies America is in relative decline – and mistakenly insists there is no economic evidence for it. Yet he argues that America’s decline is being actively willed by unnamed “politicians and policymakers”. They are “in danger of committing pre-emptive superpower suicide out of a misplaced fear of declining power”.

[..]

Imagine a scenario where China became the top dog, he says. Would it uphold the system that got it there? Mr Kagan answers by way of a fable. A frog agrees to carry a scorpion on his back across the river on the promise he will not be stung. “How can I sting you when I would also drown?” asks the scorpion. As the frog drowns, it asks why the scorpion broke its word: “Because I am a scorpion,” comes the reply.

With that Mr Kagan pretty much dismisses two generations of China strategy. The wealth China has earned by global integration, and the numbers lifted from poverty, may in the end count for little against its true nature, he suggests. Which brings us back to the main quandary: the book’s real target is American declinists; yet America’s declinist-in-chief loves its thesis. Who knows, perhaps it is one of those instances of co-option at which presidents excel. In which case, it is fair to ask who is carrying whom?

.

Krauthammer impersonator


.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

where else, from Iranian paper

.
“We now have a number of federal agencies with tens of thousands of employees, who’re spying on Americans…every aspect of American life,” Sherwood Ross, reporter of Chicago Daily News said in an interview with our channel on Sunday.

“We have a government, which is providing local police departments with SWAT [Special Weapons and Tactics] teams, which use incredible force in putting down protesters” -- who have been waging anti-corporatism demonstrations across the country.

The popular protests are being carried out under the banner of the Occupy movement. The movement owes its name and inspiration to the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) campaign that emerged after a group of demonstrators gathered in New York's financial district on September 17, 2011 to protest against the excessive influence of big corporations on the US policies and the high-level corruption in the country.

“We are seeing a country with a president [, who] can have the military arrest any person,” Ross pointed out.

He said the apprehension would be carried out “once the president says so without court order” and would result in detention “in indefinite military confinement.”

Over the past couple of months, the police have broken up Occupy encampments in cities and towns across the US and laid several thousands of protesters under arrest.

According to occupyarrests.com, a website tracking the instances of apprehension, at least 6,477 Occupy protesters have been arrested since the emergence of the movement.
.

.. not wonder US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Egyptians: Look to the Constitutions of South Africa or Canada, Not to the US Constitution .. American constitution in toilet by Bush and flashed by Hussein Barak


.

[Demon of Undoing]

911 is a joke

The people of Detroit are taking no prisoners.

Justifiable homicide in the city shot up 79 percent in 2011 from the previous year, as citizens in the long-suffering city armed themselves and took matters into their own hands. The local rate of self-defense killings now stands 2,200 percent above the national average. Residents, unable to rely on a dwindling police force to keep them safe, are fighting back against the criminal scourge on their own. And they’re offering no apologies.

“We got to have a little Old West up here in Detroit. That’s what it’s gonna take,” Detroit resident Julia Brown told The Daily.

The last time Brown, 73, called the Detroit police, they didn’t show up until the next day. So she applied for a permit to carry a handgun and says she’s prepared to use it against the young thugs who have taken over her neighborhood, burglarizing entire blocks, opening fire at will and terrorizing the elderly with impunity.

“I don’t intend to be one of their victims,” said Brown, who has lived in Detroit since the late 1950s. “I’m planning on taking one out.”

How it got this bad in Detroit has become a point of national discussion. Violent crime settled into the city’s bones decades ago, but recently, as the numbers of police officers have plummeted and police response times have remained distressingly high, citizens have taken to dealing with things themselves.

In this city of about 700,000 people, the number of cops has steadily fallen, from about 5,000 a decade ago to fewer than 3,000 today. Detroit homicides — the second-highest per capita in the country last year, according to the FBI — rose by 10 percent in 2011 to 344 people.

On a bleak day in January, a group of funeral directors wearied by the violence drove a motorcade of hearses through the city streets in protest.

Average police response time for priority calls in the city, according to the latest data available, is 24 minutes. In comparable cities across the country, it is well under 10 minutes.

Citizens like Brown feel they have been left with little choice but to take the law into their own hands.

The number of justifiable homicides, in which residents use deadly force in self-defense, jumped from 19 in 2010 to 34 last year — a 79 percent rise — according to newly released city data.

[Enki]

Detroit is a mess. But a lot of people in the Occupy movement see Detroit as the model for what comes next. Not in the fact that they are being taken over by thugs, but how to organize locally post-collapse. A lot of informal economy going on there since they are low on liquid capital but prices are really low, so they have created local markets that do not require actual cash.

[monster_gardener]

911 is a joke

The people of Detroit are taking no prisoners.

Justifiable homicide in the city shot up 79 percent in 2011 from the previous year, as citizens in the long-suffering city armed themselves and took matters into their own hands. The local rate of self-defense killings now stands 2,200 percent above the national average. Residents, unable to rely on a dwindling police force to keep them safe, are fighting back against the criminal scourge on their own. And they’re offering no apologies.

“We got to have a little Old West up here in Detroit. That’s what it’s gonna take,” Detroit resident Julia Brown told The Daily.

The last time Brown, 73, called the Detroit police, they didn’t show up until the next day. So she applied for a permit to carry a handgun and says she’s prepared to use it against the young thugs who have taken over her neighborhood, burglarizing entire blocks, opening fire at will and terrorizing the elderly with impunity.

“I don’t intend to be one of their victims,” said Brown, who has lived in Detroit since the late 1950s. “I’m planning on taking one out.”

How it got this bad in Detroit has become a point of national discussion. Violent crime settled into the city’s bones decades ago, but recently, as the numbers of police officers have plummeted and police response times have remained distressingly high, citizens have taken to dealing with things themselves.

In this city of about 700,000 people, the number of cops has steadily fallen, from about 5,000 a decade ago to fewer than 3,000 today. Detroit homicides — the second-highest per capita in the country last year, according to the FBI — rose by 10 percent in 2011 to 344 people.

On a bleak day in January, a group of funeral directors wearied by the violence drove a motorcade of hearses through the city streets in protest.

Average police response time for priority calls in the city, according to the latest data available, is 24 minutes. In comparable cities across the country, it is well under 10 minutes.

Citizens like Brown feel they have been left with little choice but to take the law into their own hands.

The number of justifiable homicides, in which residents use deadly force in self-defense, jumped from 19 in 2010 to 34 last year — a 79 percent rise — according to newly released city data.

Thank you Very Much for your post, DOU.

IMVHO we/US/Uz need to think 3D outside of the box: WWBBD/What Would Bugs Bunny Do......

Winging it...............

Why not legalize drugs: starting with medical marijuana but maybe EVERYTHING that is not worse than alcohol..........
Just charge the standard sales tax rate that everything other than food etc pays...........
Could see a big influx of tax revenue...........
If the Fudderales object tell them to send cash or come police Detroit themselves..........

Or why not contract out the Policing to the Yakuza of Japan......... AIUI they have a tradition of auxiliary policing..............
If your protection racket actually protects the businesses from criminals, then how different is that from the police

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza

Maybe the Mafia would like to go Yakuza........... Might be nice to be able to have your HQ name "Mafia Headquarters" on a sign on the building like the Yakuza in Japan do

OR just threaten to do the above and see what the State or the Fudds* do...........


OR enlist this guy.............




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboCop:_The_Series

*could be martial law...............

[Enki]

Monster Gardener There really isn't anything worse than alcohol. The most addictive substance is nicotine, and the most destructive one is alcohol. No drug will make someone more likely to be violent or do more damage to their body than alcohol.

[monster_gardener]

Monster Gardener There really isn't anything worse than alcohol. The most addictive substance is nicotine, and the most destructive one is alcohol. No drug will make someone more likely to be violent or do more damage to their body than alcohol.

Thank you Very Much for your reply, Tinker Enki.

You may be right.......... and IIRC DOU has said similar.............

And that's what I was hinting..........

If true, then there is little reason to prohibit virtually any drug on the basis that it is addictive and that it can turn you into/release the monster within...........

Which reminds me.

Believe I heard a representative of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition recently......... Was claiming something on the order that much of this rigmarole of drug prohibition laws dates to Nixon and is based on a foreign treaty...... Claimed that this is illegal as there is a law that requires ANY treaty that contradicts US laws to have to be passed by Constitutional amendment..........

Need to investigate further..........

IF true could be big........

Wonder if it might have any applicability to that ACTA copyright treaty abomination which the current admin claims does NOT need to be approved by the Senate..........

May need to start imitating Cato the Elder in closing remarks.........

RON Paul or Gary Johnson for President! Rand Paul for Vice President!

[Hans Bulvai]

http://floridaindependent.com/68625/num ... es-to-drop

Report: Number of Muslim-Americans indicted for terrorist plots continues to drop
By Marcos Restrepo | 02.09.12 | 10:44 am
Comments Share The FBI seal (Pic via fbi.gov)
The number of Muslim-Americans indicted for violent plots and/or offering financial support to terrorism declined for the second straight year, according to a study released Wednesday.

“Muslim-American Terrorism in the Decade Since 9/11″ (.pdf), the third annual report on this issue, states that 20 Muslim-Americans were indicted for violent terrorist plots in 2011, adding that while “this number is not negligible — small numbers of Muslim-Americans continue to radicalize each year and plot violence. However, the rate of radicalization is far less than many feared in the aftermath of 9/11.”

The report points to warnings about the “terrorist threat,” “the evolution of terrorist tactics” and “the extent of Muslim-American radicalization by al-Qaeda” by federal officials Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, FBI Director Robert Mueller and Congressman Peter King, chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security in the U.S. House.

Researchers found:

Terrorist plots have decreased in each of the past two years, since the spike of cases in 2009. Threats remain: violent plots have not dwindled to zero, and revolutionary Islamist organizations overseas continue to call for Muslim-Americans to engage in violence. However, the number of Muslim-Americans who have responded to these calls continues to be tiny, when compared with the population of more than 2 million Muslims in the United States and when compared with the total level of violence in the United States, which was on track to register 14,000 murders in 2011.

According to The New York Times, “Charles Kurzman, the author of the report for the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, called terrorism by Muslim Americans ‘a minuscule threat to public safety.’ Of about 14,000 murders in the United States last year, not a single one resulted from Islamic extremism, said Mr. Kurzman, a professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina.” The Triangle Center is “a collaborative effort between Duke University, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and RTI International.”

The organization’s report indicates that “2011’s Muslim-American terrorism suspects did not fit any particular demographic profile”:

•30 percent were age 30 and older, as compared with 35 percent of all cases since 9/11.
•70 percent were U.S. citizens, as compared with 68 percent of all cases since 9/11.
•suspects came from a variety of ethnic backgrounds – 30 percent Arab, 25 percent white, and 15 percent African-American.
•40 percent were converts, as compared with 35 percent of all cases since 9/11.
Nezar Hamze, a registered Republican and the executive director of the South Florida chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, told The Florida Independent earlier this month that accusations tying his organization to Muslim terrorists are ridiculous.

“Unfortunately, right now, to bash Muslims, or bash Islam, has become mainstream GOP strategy,” Hamze said. “You have quote after quote from Republican presidential candidates that are absolutely ludicrous and fringe. It’s unfortunate because if you take those quotes and you replace Islam with Judaism or Christianity it is completely unacceptable, but for some reason it has become mainstream in the GOP to attack Muslims.”

The report issued Wednesday concludes that “almost 200 Muslim-Americans have been involved in violent plots of terrorism over this decade, and more than 400 Muslim- Americans have been indicted or convicted for supporting terrorism,” but it warns that over the decade the surge in Muslim-Amerian terrorism “has not materialized.”

“This study’s findings challenge Americans to be vigilant against the threat of homegrown terrorism while maintaining a responsible sense of proportion,” the report states.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

"There were almost these sparks flying between them from the first moment when they saw each other,"

what a bottomfeeder this Bill


.