Democrats and bombing

[Enki]

The military dumps money into the private economy the same way any government spending does.

That's the most retarded argument imaginable.

At this point I think anyone who is really gung ho about the military and what it does abroad just likes the fact that their tax dollars are going toward killing people.

[Mr. Perfect]

But it's away from the slutbag economy Tinker. Keep that in mind.

We're all people killers now Tinker, even you. And Zack. And Obama. And all of you people. People killers covered in blood.

[Enki]

But it's away from the slutbag economy Tinker. Keep that in mind.

Yeah, better that sluts not spend their money on sushi and a play, better to slaughter Afghans than that. You really just said it. Murder is superior to promiscuous sex.

We're all people killers now Tinker, even you. And Zack. And Obama. And all of you people. People killers covered in blood.

Yes, the difference is some of us don't like it.

[Carbizene]

.... And all of you people. People killers covered in blood.

I like how you subtly construct a separation from yourself by turning 'We' into 'You', quite Machivellian as you construct a dialogue of inclusiveness by the use of 'we' to build a bridge of trust, a Trojan horse if you will, as once the gates are open out pops 'you people', a construct of otherness, people to be distrusted.

[Mr. Perfect]

Yeah, better that sluts not spend their money on sushi and a play, better to slaughter Afghans than that. You really just said it. Murder is superior to promiscuous sex.

Looks like we all agree now.

Yes, the difference is some of us don't like it.

What a difference to the people being murdered.

[Mr. Perfect]

.... And all of you people. People killers covered in blood.

I like how you subtly construct a separation from yourself by turning 'We' into 'You', quite Machivellian as you construct a dialogue of inclusiveness by the use of 'we' to build a bridge of trust, a Trojan horse if you will, as once the gates are open out pops 'you people', a construct of otherness, people to be distrusted.

I always thought I was good at politics.

[Ibrahim]

The military dumps money into the private economy the same way any government spending does.

That's the most retarded argument imaginable.

At this point I think anyone who is really gung ho about the military and what it does abroad just likes the fact that their tax dollars are going toward killing people.

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing. What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

[Ibrahim]

In fact, I'm leaving tomorrow morning for Bahrain to join the Enterprise strike group, then to cross-deck over to the Eisenhower's strike group when it shows up later in the summer.

Sweet vacay! Be sure to thank those suckers (I mean taxpayers) who foot the bill for all that tanning. Plus, I hear they have soft-serve in the officers mess.

I get 72 hours of overtime per week that I'm underway, so I can't complain. I'm against rent-seeking bureaucracies, just not MY rent-seeking bureaucracy.

Worth every nickel, I'm sure. I hope they fly you business class or higher.

Well, they only pay for economy, but I've got 970,000 United Miles, so you know...

Well that's a relief. Us private sector types get upgrades on international, but no such waste among public servants. Contractors? It can go either way.

[Enki]

The military dumps money into the private economy the same way any government spending does.

That's the most retarded argument imaginable.

At this point I think anyone who is really gung ho about the military and what it does abroad just likes the fact that their tax dollars are going toward killing people.

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing. What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

Conservatives are obsessed with punishment. They don't want a 'nanny' state (feminine) they want a muscular disciplinarian Father state.

Liberals want Mommy and Conservatives want Daddy.

[Mr. Perfect]

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing.

And I agree with that. the people that said they cared before were all lying.

What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

I'm not sure what's funny about it, if I was on the left I would be furious, all that money going to conservative interests and away from slutbag policy.

[Demon of Undoing]

The military dumps money into the private economy the same way any government spending does.

That's the most retarded argument imaginable.

At this point I think anyone who is really gung ho about the military and what it does abroad just likes the fact that their tax dollars are going toward killing people.

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing. What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

Conservatives are obsessed with punishment. They don't want a 'nanny' state (feminine) they want a muscular disciplinarian Father state.

Liberals want Mommy and Conservatives want Daddy.

In this construct, I want the house burnt down, the parents sold into slavery or better, and the children taken off to push the Wheel of Pain.

The whole family is a menace.

[noddy]

oh for the distant father who appears to be indifferent because he assumes you are competent, with mum giving a few gentle prods from time to time.

[cdgt]

oh for the distant father who appears to be indifferent because he assumes you are competent, with mum giving a few gentle prods from time to time.

^ This.

• Bravo, sir!

[Enki]

oh for the distant father who appears to be indifferent because he assumes you are competent, with mum giving a few gentle prods from time to time.

It's more like the Daddy who whips you for the slightest infraction and says, "Well, if you didn't do it this time, this is for something else that you did but didn't get caught."

[cdgt]

My father told me he did not consider it his business to raise children. His objective was to raise adults.

It has, as its objective, working oneself out of a job and creating a peer.

That is not a liberal position, which instead seeks to create a reliable voting block of dependent children.

[noddy]

It's more like the Daddy who whips you for the slightest infraction and says, "Well, if you didn't do it this time, this is for something else that you did but didn't get caught."

hey ive got no love for puritan authoritarians of any flavour, in australia we didnt get many christian puritans and they hid away in tasmania and rural nsw breeding feral greenies (lol) , we mostly got convicts and sick-of-the-motherland settlers both of which are less prone to such thinking.

america is radically different for that, or atleast appears so from the outside.

swap the beatings for personality-readjustment-clinics and you also have the authoritarian lefty atheist modus operandi... we do have a big problem with that over here .. goddamn the baby boomers and their fear worshipping, erm, harm minimisation departments :/

[monster_gardener]

Good piece of how most professional Democrats fell into line on the ongoing civilian murdering campaign:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... terAccount

Rachel Maddow and conservatism, the new liberalism
The 'prominent liberal' misses the point that it is not politicians, but the system itself, which is corrupt.

Washington, DC - Once upon a time - say, three years ago - your average Democrat appeared to care about issues of war and peace. When the man dropping the bombs spoke with an affected Texas twang, the moral and fiscal costs of empire were the subject of numerous protests and earnest panel discussions, the issue not just a banal matter of policy upon which reasonable people could disagree, but a matter of the nation's very soul.

Then the guy in the White House changed.

Now, if the Democratic rank and file haven't necessarily learned to love the bomb - though many certainly have - they have at least learned to stop worrying about it. Barack Obama may have dramatically expanded the war in Afghanistan, launched twice as many drone strikes in Pakistan as his predecessor and dropped women-and-children killing cluster bombs in Yemen, but peruse a liberal magazine or blog and you're more likely to find a strongly worded denunciation of Rush Limbaugh than the president. War isn't over, but one could be forgiven for thinking that it is.

This part is a precious/wrong though.

To be fair, America was indeed once a more peaceful place, the idea of permanent war once as foreign as the European colonisers who landed there.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

To be fair, America was indeed once a more peaceful place, the idea of permanent war once as foreign as the European colonisers who landed there.

Quite right you are, Ibrahim.

As shown by the next sentence......

But that was before the time of Christopher Columbus, not Ronald Reagan.

Recalling the "Wars of Flowers" between the Aztecs and the neighboring tribes such as the Tlaxcalans where the purpose of the war was to capture prisoners to be sacrificed to make sure the Sun kept burning which per their theology was a never ending struggle..........

And in North America, the more civilized tribes had torture by gauntlet and fire as one of the national sports..........

[monster_gardener]

The military dumps money into the private economy the same way any government spending does.

That's the most retarded argument imaginable.

At this point I think anyone who is really gung ho about the military and what it does abroad just likes the fact that their tax dollars are going toward killing people.

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing. What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

The OP was about how the majority of Americans don't care about killing.

IMVHO, We Americans do care about killing & destruction etc. in general.

We don't like it when other people do it to us. We dislike this so much that we are quite willing to do it to others...

Sometimes this works if done properly......... Andy Jackson vs. the Southeast Asian Muslim Pirates............

The problem is that of late, we largely bungle the matter expensively nation building, bribing etc. .......though we finally did get Osama bin Ladin...*

What's funny about American defense spending, which we've become sidetracked onto, is the way American "conservatives" abandon their fiscal ideals entirely when the issue comes up.

That depends............ Plenty of waste at the Defense Dept and see above ............ But how much did 911 cost? ............ And how much would it have cost if Osama had thought larger ?..............



*IIRC Better than the Brits did with a similar sheik in that part of the world when they were playing the so called "Great Game"

[Ibrahim]

So will overparenting or underparenting government help with the whole military-industrial complex thing?

Singapore is largely disarmed and basically fascist, and Switzerland is some ur-democracy where everybody has assault rifles, but neither of them occupy other countries and murder their civilians. I like the left/right knife fight as much as the next guy, but these aren't the droids you're looking for.

[noddy]

you can rev up the lefties for imperialism with stories of oppressed women and nasty religions doing nasty things.
you can rev up righties for imperialism with heroism warrior antics.

they are both easy to rev up for a bit of authoritarian interventionism because you cant take the light on the hill to the rest of the world without smashing away the darkness.

puritan interventionism seems to be quite the thang in america, it crosses the left/right boundary and is part of the psyche, it shows you CARE... apparently.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

...but neither of them occupy other countries and murder their civilians.

Someone has to.

[Demon of Undoing]

So will overparenting or underparenting government help with the whole military-industrial complex thing?

Singapore is largely disarmed and basically fascist, and Switzerland is some ur-democracy where everybody has assault rifles, but neither of them occupy other countries and murder their civilians. I like the left/right knife fight as much as the next guy, but these aren't the droids you're looking for.

I keep saying it, and people don't really object, they just let it skim along the outside of their awareness. Americans are a violent people. Culturally, historically, socially, the lot. It was founded on it, perpetuated by it. If America has been a beacon of freedom in the past, it was only so because information wasn't getting out. The big smiles that came from immigrants were almost entirely there because the money began to flow. Poor people in America don't smile much. But you can paper over a lavender ton of lies with enough greenbacks. Better make sure the money keeps flowing.

And that's fine. People are screwed, waddaya gonna do. But a nation does not, as pointed out, have to " do " this. The habitual violent expression is a peculiarity of national identity and culture. The civic religion is built on it. I come from a family of soldiers, and it was accepted that there would be a war waiting for us, about every twenty years, without fail. And there has been. America's business is and always has been built around war. The Civil War validated the use of force against dissent and extralegal extension of central authority. This is inevitable, not because a particular thing happened to us. It's just who we are. If aliens came to Earth acting like Americans, Americans would go apeshit and try to nuke them within a matter of days.

It's a disease, I tell you.

[Demon of Undoing]

...but neither of them occupy other countries and murder their civilians.

Someone has to.

Are you sure?

[Mr. Perfect]

you can rev up the lefties for imperialism with stories of oppressed women and nasty religions doing nasty things.

No, they've never done a war over that.

you can rev up righties for imperialism with heroism warrior antics.

The American right really responds to bombing and killing people that don't like America. The number of people that fall into that category seems to be growing so... should be interesting.

they are both easy to rev up for a bit of authoritarian interventionism because you cant take the light on the hill to the rest of the world without smashing away the darkness.

Democrats just like pushing their weight around. That explains all of their military activities.

puritan interventionism seems to be quite the thang in america, it crosses the left/right boundary and is part of the psyche, it shows you CARE... apparently.

Sorta kinda. In history the biggest political boon for politicians is war, IE the greatest politicians in history are considered great because of a triumphant war. Every President and wannabe lusts after that kind of glory. In the absence of actual threats, "changing the world" seems to be a good cover to get into one.

[noddy]

you can rev up the lefties for imperialism with stories of oppressed women and nasty religions doing nasty things.

No, they've never done a war over that.

you can rev up righties for imperialism with heroism warrior antics.

The American right really responds to bombing and killing people that don't like America. The number of people that fall into that category seems to be growing so... should be interesting.

they are both easy to rev up for a bit of authoritarian interventionism because you cant take the light on the hill to the rest of the world without smashing away the darkness.

Democrats just like pushing their weight around. That explains all of their military activities.

puritan interventionism seems to be quite the thang in america, it crosses the left/right boundary and is part of the psyche, it shows you CARE... apparently.

Sorta kinda. In history the biggest political boon for politicians is war, IE the greatest politicians in history are considered great because of a triumphant war. Every President and wannabe lusts after that kind of glory. In the absence of actual threats, "changing the world" seems to be a good cover to get into one.

not sure you are really disagreeing with me, perhaps just catching some sloppy use of language in my rushed dribbles.