Unable to agree on what a woman is, the Supreme court ends right to an abortion

[Doc]

Justice Kennedy was overheard saying"How can we give rights to something we can't even define as a court?
https://thepostmillennial.com/psaki-def ... draft-leak
Psaki defends right to abortions following SCOTUS draft leak

When asked to define what a woman is Psaki replied: "I'll circle back to you on that"

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Liberals misused the abortion laws .. abortion was never meant as "birth control" .. in Spain abortion was legal till late of pregnancy months

Am against abortion as birth control
.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Abortion rights is an obfuscation. The issue is who leaked and why did they choose to leak it now.

[noddy]

pointless and unsolvable Wedge Issues always arrive when real bipartisan issues are being ignored.

in Australia we just had a huge, utterly pointless round of trans men in womens sport dominating the news - another issue with no possible outcomes or shifting of moral positions that gets everyone shouting at each other while the economy goes down the toilet.

lets not look at inflation, lets not look at stagnant wages, lets not discuss everyones quality of life going down the toilet.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Abortion rights is an obfuscation. The issue is who leaked and why did they choose to leak it now.

They leaked it now to intimidate the court and set off the messaging for the '22 election season.

The last time the court seriously thought of overturning Roe v Wade in the 90s, there were a number of leaks too and the court went from 6-3 in favor of overturning Roe to a 4-5 defeat with the defections of Justices O'Conner and Souter months after the initial vote and writing of opinions.

[Heracleum Persicum]

lets not look at inflation, lets not look at stagnant wages, lets not discuss everyones quality of life going down the toilet.
.

For that you talk to Xi

Cant have the cake and eat it too

Notion you can replace Xi with Mody silly

Talk to Xi

in Australia we just had a huge, utterly pointless round of trans men in womens sport dominating the news - another issue with no possible outcomes or shifting of moral positions that gets everyone shouting at each other while the economy goes down the toilet.
.

For that you talk to Patriarch Kirill (of Moscow)

Here too, can't be half pregnant, you Liberal Democrat ? have to accept trans man showering with your daughter in Jim
.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

pointless and unsolvable Wedge Issues always arrive when real bipartisan issues are being ignored.

in Australia we just had a huge, utterly pointless round of trans men in womens sport dominating the news - another issue with no possible outcomes or shifting of moral positions that gets everyone shouting at each other while the economy goes down the toilet.

lets not look at inflation, lets not look at stagnant wages, lets not discuss everyones quality of life going down the toilet.

Hardly pointless or unsolvable. Every other western country's legislature came to an agreement on how to deal with abortion within their countries; we had it imposed by judicial ukase as a favor to doctor guilds then gaslit with propaganda about it being about women's rights (It's always been about doctor's rights to have a monopoly over the issue without facing potential penalties).

Roe v Wade was a terrible ruling and the only reason we've been stuck with it is a mixture of inertia, cowardice and the ideology of PMCs, unreflective of the country's own views.

Open it up and the country pretty much falls in line with almost everywhere else-- access to 1st trimester abortion with a range of exceptions made for health purposes after that point.

[noddy]

i didnt mean pointless on those levels.

i meant pointless for it ever being resolved, as if the positions of the various groups is ever going to change.

the question was - why was it leaked and why now.

the answer is, because everyone has a strong opinion on an important issue that will now dominate the social media for quite some time - already my feed is full of pictures of america and which states are going to ban abortions.

the fact we have run away inflation on core commodities, stagnant wages, and raising interest rates as the only crude tool to fix that - which wont work for various reasons.

is the real issue, we are being led away from.

---
you and azari jumped in with passionate stances straight away - its the perfect wedge.

[noddy]

Open it up and the country pretty much falls in line with almost everywhere else-- access to 1st trimester abortion with a range of exceptions made for health purposes after that point.

this is not what the hysterical ones are proposing will happen.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/03/us/s ... index.html

Arkansas has a law on the books that would ban nearly all abortions in the event that Roe is overturned, except for in the case of a life-threatening medical emergency. A medical provider who violates the law could face up to 10 years in prison, a fine of up to $100,000 or both.

--

Idaho's trigger ban would make providing abortions a felony punishable by up to five years in prison if Roe is struck down. Exceptions are provided to prevent the death of the pregnant person or in the case of rape or incest.

--

Kentucky's legislature passed a bill in 2019 which would ban abortions and make performing them a felony offense if the Supreme Court overturns Roe. Very limited exceptions would be provided to prevent the death or serious injury of the person giving birth.

etc etc

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

you and azari jumped in with passionate stances straight away - its the perfect wedge.

I interjected about it being something other than a trivial, unresolving issue; that it's hobbling because it was a bad judicial ruling.

How is that jumping in passionately?

[noddy]

you and azari jumped in with passionate stances straight away - its the perfect wedge.

I interjected about it being something other than a trivial, unresolving issue; that it's hobbling because it was a bad judicial ruling.

How is that jumping in passionately?

i never said trivial, maybe i implied it inaverdently, wasnt in my mind.

it is an unresolving issue however - their is no possible debate that will change the positions of the encamped positions - you might be able to dismiss it as a gaslighting womens rights issue but i wouldnt be able to find more than 50% of the population that agreed with that view.

my personal view is the first trimester view, but thats neither here nor there on this - aslong as some states want to ban it entirely, their will be pressure on federals to unban it entirely.

.. so, we are back to why now

[noddy]

Abortion rights is an obfuscation. The issue is who leaked and why did they choose to leak it now.

this is the post i was answering.

I had zero intention of getting involved in a debate on the pros and cons of american abortion laws, so will bail out.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

aslong as some states want to ban it entirely, their will be pressure on federals to unban it entirely.

.. so, we are back to why now

If that is the case, let congress go on record for how they'd vote. Again, this is something everyone else went through fifty years ago, and its been stupidly delayed here because of certain classes' interest over the matter.

Like I said in my initial post-- I think that is the 'why'. Maybe it will work, maybe not.

As I read someone write today, "no one is going to care come november with all the economic issues in the country and all of the pro-choice professional manager types are already voting democrat."

[Nonc Hilaire]

If the Dems think RvW is going to overpower inflation and the jab injuries I think no way. My daughter is 20 and all pro abortion rights, and I can tell you the talking points have not changed a whit since 1970.

They are still waving wire coathangers fcol.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I can tell you the talking points have not changed a whit since 1970.

They are still waving wire coathangers fcol.

It is sold as an identity-affirmer, it's not an argument.

Maybe I was wrong with calling it 'gaslighting' earlier, but my point is that that case was more about giving permission to doctors than it had anything to do with women, something they were procuring in various ways before the case (unless one is arguing that previously, some looked the other way due to it being a "woman's issue").

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Open it up and the country pretty much falls in line with almost everywhere else-- access to 1st trimester abortion with a range of exceptions made for health purposes after that point.

this is not what the hysterical ones are proposing will happen.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/03/us/s ... index.html

Arkansas has a law on the books that would ban nearly all abortions in the event that Roe is overturned, except for in the case of a life-threatening medical emergency. A medical provider who violates the law could face up to 10 years in prison, a fine of up to $100,000 or both.

--

Idaho's trigger ban would make providing abortions a felony punishable by up to five years in prison if Roe is struck down. Exceptions are provided to prevent the death of the pregnant person or in the case of rape or incest.

--

Kentucky's legislature passed a bill in 2019 which would ban abortions and make performing them a felony offense if the Supreme Court overturns Roe. Very limited exceptions would be provided to prevent the death or serious injury of the person giving birth.

etc etc

I do not foresee any of that holding up without a real political will in those states; if it exists, what would be the problem?

It's one thing to pass those laws and statues when it is merely an abstraction or far-off dream. It is another when it is real and present and actually in the hands of legislatures.

It's all superficial anyway, it's always utterly laughable that anyone is grassing up the local abortionist for anything; much less a jury convicting them.

This has never been the case anywhere. It's like the idea that customers are turning in their local pot dealer.

Unlike the pot dealer (war on drugs aside), there is no material evidence to track or successful line of witness who would possibly come forward.

And the historical record suggests that the legal tendency has been to view all abortion cases as containing mitigating factors which relieved people of all sorts of culpability; most especially when a licensed doctor signs off on it.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Just to be clear, I do have a strong position on it: It's no secret that I believe abortion a grave matter and not permitted for us Christians, as attested to from the earliest church fathers. Tertullian is a good on this because he words in such a way which conveys that the prohibition (that we Christians are not to destroy even that which is in the womb) is something widely received, while following that up with his own speculation as to why it is prohibited.

While I would welcome the adoption of the Christian prohibition, I do not expect it to carry the day, to be shared by a majority (including non-zero sum of Christians) nor do I wish the church is held captive by the activity or inactivity of the state (any more than it unfortunately is).

I do expect to have a say or representation in my own government though and have the ability to point out that people's attitudes about abortion are constructed on a whim [to quote the current president] from a complex assortment of preconceived notions and rationalizations; usually don't really make a lot of sense when examined and that in practice it operates as a type of social contagion*, one I do not wish to spread.

[noddy]

I would never choose abortion in my life for my outcomes - but for the law - the blurry line between potential baby and actual baby is the only argument that seems to cross all the issues at hand, and all the cultures aswell.

which is why it tends to end up being variations on the first trimester as the defendable line in the sand.

if our society supported young single mothers better, maybe that line could move - but we dont, so it wont.

[Nonc Hilaire]

The abortion question today is entirely different. With plan b and natural abortifacients killing an infant in utero is a matter of personal morality that is not controllable by the state.

The current issues revolve around the collection and use of the living fetal bodies and the corpses. Aborted children are in demand by the cosmetics, food service and medical industries.

The abortion industry operates like a farm. It manages its’ victims to harvest the fetus at the point of maximum profit. They are successfully passing state legislation to allow post-birth abortions (infanticide).

https://www.centerformedicalprogress.or ... e-footage/

[Parodite]

qNS1chtkiX4

Papershred Ben S seems to sum it up as it is, as far as I can tell.

Of no consequence my personal views on those grey monsters of abortion and euthanasia: keep them illegal for Krissake, i.e. allowed only when preconditions a/b/c/d/... are met. Those preconditions are the hard part of course.. and always under construction. Therefore also better developed, monitored, evaluated..voted on.. on local levels. USA state level still sounds too big to me though. Abortion and euthanasia are very personal human bare bone matters so those who decide should at least be able to congregate face to face, talk about it.

[Doc]

Why is the black woman the only one without a bread or mustache?

[Doc]

Democrats abandon non cis-gendered women's right to abortion !!!

https://dailycaller.com/2022/05/03/demo ... 7FbBHKj7Ua

Dems Make Stunning Admission About Who Can Actually Get An Abortion

Democrats have pushed gender-neutral phrases for women’s health issues, including pregnancy and childbirth.
A leaked draft opinion revealed Monday that the Supreme Court could potentially overturn Roe v. Wade, sparking backlash from liberals.
Numerous Democrats, including President Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, appeared to characterize pregnancy and abortion as issues that only directly impact women.

Democrats made an admission about what type of people can actually get abortions in the wake of a leaked Supreme Court draft opinion showing justices could potentially overturn Roe v. Wade.

After many liberals pushed for gender-neutral terms surrounding pregnancy and abortion such as “birthing people” instead of “woman,” prominent Democrats made statements appearing to suggest only women can get pregnant and have abortions. (RELATED: Conservatives Mock Prayer Opening The 117th Congress Ending With ‘Amen And Awoman’)

President Joe Biden characterized abortion as a women’s rights issue in a Tuesday statement which emphasized women’s reproductive freedom.

“I believe that a woman’s right to choose is fundamental,” he said. “f the Court does overturn Roe, it will fall on our nation’s elected officials at all levels of government to protect a woman’s right to choose.”

Hillary Clinton also painted abortion as a women’s issue. (RELATED: ‘Gravest, Most Unforgivable Sin’: SCOTUS Leak Decried By Court Watchers)

“Women’s rights are human rights and human rights are women’s rights,” Clinton said. “An extreme wing of the Supreme Court may seek to deny that fundamental truth. They may try to force their views on a country where 70% of people want Roe upheld. We will not be quiet and we will not go back.”

Women’s rights are human rights and human rights are women’s rights.

An extreme wing of the Supreme Court may seek to deny that fundamental truth.

They may try to force their views on a country where 70% of people want Roe upheld.

We will not be quiet and we will not go back.

— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) May 3, 2022

Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer suggested women were losing hope over the likely end of Roe v. Wade.

Women are waking up this morning feeling hopeless; but we can’t go back. I’m more motivated than ever to keep fighting like hell to ensure abortion remains safe and accessible in Michigan.

— Governor Gretchen Whitmer (@GovWhitmer) May 3, 2022

“Women are waking up this morning feeling hopeless; but we can’t go back. I’m more motivated than ever to keep fighting like hell to ensure abortion remains safe and accessible in Michigan,” she said.

Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom said California would fight alongside women after the purported draft opinion was leaked.

Our daughters, sisters, mothers, and grandmothers will not be silenced.

The world is about to hear their fury.

California will not sit back. We are going to fight like hell. https://t.co/EhwSWXiZhx

— Gavin Newsom (@GavinNewsom) May 3, 2022

“Our daughters, sisters, mothers, and grandmothers will not be silenced,” he wrote. “The world is about to hear their fury. California will not sit back. We are going to fight like hell.”

Democratic New York Sen. Chuck Schumer said abortion was a woman’s right.

“Every woman deserves the freedom to make their own decisions about their body, health care, and future. It’s never been more urgent to elect a governor who will always protect a woman’s right to abortion,” Schumer said.

Democratic Texas gubernatorial candidate Beto O’Rourke said abortion was a form of women’s healthcare.

Every woman deserves the freedom to make their own decisions about their body, health care, and future.
It’s never been more urgent to elect a governor who will always protect a woman’s right to abortion.

— Beto O’Rourke (@BetoORourke) May 3, 2022

“Every woman deserves the freedom to make their own decisions about their body, health care, and future. It’s never been more urgent to elect a governor who will always protect a woman’s right to abortion,” he said.

Democratic New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said reversing Roe would be a step backwards in the women’s rights movement.

“For the sake of women across the country, this should not be the Supreme Court’s final opinion when it comes to abortion rights,” she said in a statement. “We have been fighting this battle for too long. I refuse to go backwards. I refuse to let my new granddaughter have to fight for the rights generations have fought for and won, rights that she should be guaranteed.”

Democratic Georgia Sen. Raphael Warnock characterized abortion as a women’s privacy issue.

“As a pro-choice pastor, I’ve always believed that a patient’s room is way too small for a woman, her doctor, and the United States government,” he said. “I’ll always fight to protect a woman’s right to choose. And that will never change.”

Democratic New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy said abortion was part of women’s rights.

“This year, I signed the Freedom of Reproductive Choice Act – codifying a woman’s right to choose into state law. New Jersey will not go backwards on reproductive rights,” he said.

I have never seen such a target rich environment.

[Doc]

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