Russia's Pussy Riot

[Enki]

Russia's crackdown on dissidents.



Is that Gary Kasparov?

Pussy Riot sentenced to two years in prison.

[Hoosiernorm]

Pretty standard Punk Band

[monster_gardener]

Russia's crackdown on dissidents.



Is that Gary Kasparov?

Pussy Riot sentenced to two years in prison.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Tinker.

It may well be Kasparov........ He was arrested there...........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149

Would like to say that we uz are better than that but remembering Bobby Fischer............ as Weird and Nasty as Fischer was.......

The pursuit of Fischer did Uz little credit...........

Fischer didn't want to be an American ...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer

Not that that justifies this action against Kasparov.......

[Mr. Perfect]

Oops thought this was about the upcoming Democrat convention.

[noddy]

from el-lefty-vanity but its close enough to my view to be useful.

aka: try starting up a punk performance with calls for anti authority and revolution anywhere in the modern west, especially in a church.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

Anyone in England and Wales with a dog out of control can now be jailed for six months. If the dog causes injury, the maximum term is to be two years. I have no sympathy for such people. Keeping these beasts is weird, and those who do it probably need treatment. But the Defra minister, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, complained in May that fewer than 20 people were in jail for dangerous dog offences. The sentencing council has duly told courts to raise the threshold to two years, "to send a message".

The same sentiment a year ago motivated magistrates to play to the gallery by jailing 1,292 people for stealing bottles of water or trainers or sending durian incitements during the dispersed rampage dubbed "urban riots". Hysterical ministers raced home from holiday to tell judges to send messages. Judges duly ruined the lives of hundreds of young people, at great public expense and to no advantage to their victims. I have no sympathy for these people either, but again the politicised response to crime was disproportionate.

A month before, a London court jailed a stoned Charlie Gilmour after he swung on a union flag from the Cenotaph and tossed a bin at a police car, thus causing widespread outrage in the offices of the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail. The judge sent him down for 18 months to send a message carefully designed to wreck his university career. Yet again we need have no sympathy for Gilmour. But there is no such thing as a rap over the knuckles in jail. Judges know that any term in prison is a sentence for life.

How can British politicians, whose statements clearly seek to influence pliable judges, criticise other sovereign states for doing likewise? Last week the Foreign Office professed itself "deeply concerned" at the fate of Russia's Pussy Riot three, jailed for two years for "hooliganism" in Moscow's Christ the Saviour Cathedral. They had staged what, by all accounts, was an obscene publicity stunt, videoing an anti-Putin song defamatory of the Virgin Mary in front of pious worshippers.

Good for free speech, we might all say. That the act outraged public decency is an understatement. In a Levada poll of Russian public opinion, just 5% thought the girls should go unpunished and 65% wanted them in prison, 29% with hard labour. Artists round the globe may plead free speech, but to treat the Pussy Riot gesture as a glorious stand for artistic liberty is like praising Johnny Rotten, who did similar things, as the Voltaire of our day. There can be disproportionate apologias as well as disproportionate sentences.

Artists can look after their own. For the British and US governments to get on high horses about Russian sentencing is hypocrisy. America and Britain damned the "disproportionate" Pussy Riot terms. In America's case this was from a nation that jails drug offenders for 20, 30 or 40 years, holds terrorism "suspects" incommunicado indefinitely and imprisons for life even trivial "three strikes" offenders. Last week alone a US military court declared that reporting the Guantánamo Bay trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would be censored. Any mention of his torture in prison was banned as "reasonably expected to damage national security". This has no apparent connection to proportionate punishment or freedom of speech.

The British security establishment during the Tony Blair-Gordon Brown regime tried to censor history books for possible "terrorist" incitement. It introduced control orders, restricted courts and long-period detention without trial. It made unlicensed demonstrating an offence and has since sought prosecution of Twitter and Facebook abuse. British ministers and courts are craven to what passes for public opinion. The idea that, whenever a crime or antisocial action hits the headlines, "the courts must send a message" is politicised justice. At times, especially in tragic cases involving children, it gets near to a lynch mob. Again the only message sent is to the media. If Britain's draconian sentencing were effective, British jails would not be bursting at the seams.

There is of course a difference between the liberties enjoyed in most western democracies and the cruder jurisprudence of modern Russia, China and much of the Muslim world. It would be silly to pretend otherwise. But the difference is not so great as to merit the barrage of megaphone comment from west to east. Pussy Riot may have attacked no one physically, but no society, certainly not Britain, legislates on the basis that "words can never hurt". If a rock group invaded Westminster Abbey and gravely insulted a religious or ethnic minority before the high altar, we all know that ministers would howl for "exemplary punishment" and judges would oblige.

Commenting on the social mores of other countries may offer an offshore outlet for the righteous indignation of politicians and editorialists. It has no noticeable effect. Western comments on the treatment of women in Muslim states, dissidents in China or drug offenders in south-east Asia are dismissed as imperial interference. But then how would we feel if Moscow or Singapore or Tehran condemned the treatment of Cenotaph protesters?

British courts jail at the drop of a headline. One of the few cabinet ministers in recent years to show a sincere desire to relate punishment to crime and imprisonment to consequence is the justice secretary, Kenneth Clarke. He is now being bad-mouthed out of his job by Downing Street's dark arts, frightened not of Clarke but of the rightwing press. Clarke is, with Iain Duncan Smith, a rare minister intellectually engaged with his job and eager courageously to see it through. Why are the Lib Dems not defending him? For David Cameron to sack Clarke would indeed send a message. Of the worst sort.

[Simple Minded]

Oops thought this was about the upcoming Democrat convention.

You are such a bad boy! Please keep it up!

[Alexis]

Germany's "Pussy Riots" may face up to three years in prison


aka

Germany cracks down on its dissidents



Extracts:

Three copycats of Russian female punk group Pussy Riot may face three years in prison after the Catholic Church pressed charges against them, thelocal.de news website reported on Thursday.
The trio, who disrupted a service in Cologne Cathedral on Sunday, may be jailed for longer than the band they support if a court charges them and finds them guilty.
(...)
"The right to demonstration cannot be set above the right to religious freedom and the religious feelings of the congregation,”
(...)
A Berlin man was sentenced to nine months in prison in 2006 when he disrupted a service on German Unity Day.

[Nonc Hilaire]

The worship of God by any religion deserves respect and protection.

Regardless of religious/secular choice or opinion, there needs to be safe harbors maintained for enemies to meet. Churches retain this status and should be supported even on secular arguments.

[Parodite]

I doubt if somebody sneaks himself into a private congregation of football club Bayern Munchen, dresses up in the outfit of a rivaling club and starts to chant the hymn of that rivaling club shouting that Bayern Munchen sucks sucks sucks... is sent to jail for that.

Do religious congregations deserve special status and protection?

[Enki]

Arresting them and holding them overnight is the normal response

[Parodite]

Arresting them and holding them overnight is the normal response

Indeed. But sending them to prison for years... or even months..

[Enki]

Arresting them and holding them overnight is the normal response

Indeed. But sending them to prison for years... or even months..

That's what I mean, it's extremely excessive.

[Hoosiernorm]

Considering I live in Jesusland USA I think that a punk band doing this at a prominent local church would probably evoke a lot of the same demands from the locals. Three years is a bit harsh, tresspassing and criminal mischief are usually time served and some probation that includes a restraining order.

[Enki]

Considering I live in Jesusland USA I think that a punk band doing this at a prominent local church would probably evoke a lot of the same demands from the locals. Three years is a bit harsh, tresspassing and criminal mischief are usually time served and some probation that includes a restraining order.

Restraining order, community service for repeat offenses, a 'disturbing the peace' citation. All within the bounds of reasonably 'keeping the peace'. Putting them in prison for years is preposterous.

[Parodite]

Considering I live in Jesusland USA I think that a punk band doing this at a prominent local church would probably evoke a lot of the same demands from the locals. Three years is a bit harsh, tresspassing and criminal mischief are usually time served and some probation that includes a restraining order.

Restraining order, community service for repeat offenses, a 'disturbing the peace' citation. All within the bounds of reasonably 'keeping the peace'. Putting them in prison for years is preposterous.

Absolutely. So it begs the question why religious sensibilities are being considered of higher value than others, and if it is just that the law follows that perceived difference in terms of punishment.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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The writer calls Pussy Riot's acts "Satanism" and says it's "not a musical group. It's a political provocation collective."

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[Taboo]

Russia is not a democracy.

Russia doesn't have the people to have a democracy. Not enough of them, anyway.

Russia can't afford not being a democracy. Russia won't be a democracy anytime soon.
Russia can't afford not having rule of law. Russia won't have rule of law anytime soon.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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Russia would be wise to learn from its past mistakes - and from its past triumphs - by sanctioning a day of rest for the Muslim hands that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



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[monster_gardener]

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Russia would be wise to learn from its past mistakes - and from its past triumphs - by sanctioning a day of rest for the Muslim hands that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



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Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

And Thank You for maintaining the Forum, Typhoon & Ymix.

Respectfully suggest that this be converted into a more general Russian thread even though Sex Sells and it would have a less Sexy/catty title.

My apologies if we have one already and I missed it.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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Russia would be wise to learn from its past mistakes - and from its past triumphs - by sanctioning a day of rest for the Muslim hands that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

And Thank You for maintaining the Forum, Typhoon & Ymix.

Respectfully suggest that this be converted into a more general Russian thread even though Sex Sells and it would have a less Sexy/catty title.

My apologies if we have one already and I missed it.

.

Looked for but did not find a Russia Thread

but

Monster

the kicker is :

Russia soon will be a Muslim country that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



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[monster_gardener]

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Russia would be wise to learn from its past mistakes - and from its past triumphs - by sanctioning a day of rest for the Muslim hands that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

And Thank You for maintaining the Forum, Typhoon & Ymix.

Respectfully suggest that this be converted into a more general Russian thread even though Sex Sells and it would have a less Sexy/catty title.

My apologies if we have one already and I missed it.

.

Looked for but did not find a Russia Thread

but

Monster

the kicker is :

Russia soon will be a Muslim country that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



.

Thank you Very Much for your Post, Azari.

Thank you also VERY MUCH for the search for if there was a Russian Thread....... I didn't have time to be Russin' around looking for it........

You may prove right.......

Maybe Russia being an Orthodox Christian Protector Nation is only a passing thing.....

If you are right, then maybe the "Referers" in the OT were on to something about being aGog about Magog....

http://theculture.wikia.com/wiki/Referer

[monster_gardener]

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Russia would be wise to learn from its past mistakes - and from its past triumphs - by sanctioning a day of rest for the Muslim hands that will soon dominate trade, construction, schools, and the armed forces.



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Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

That could be one approach but IMVHO should not do things to encourage an especially dangerous Meme......

Based on the history of Christians in the ME, I might suggest that if he wants Russian to remain Orthodox Putin adopt reversed elements of Muslim dhimmitude rules......

Humans are not only violent depraved sinful Killer Apes, many of us are GREEDY depraved Killer Apes.....

Minor tax increases everyone with tax breaks for converts to Orthodox and current Orthodox who actively participate...... Call Perks for Patriots to Holy Mother Russia or Similar....

Jews should try this in Israel...... though you could also exempt non Jewish populations of proven loyalty........

Let Druse Jet Pilots Cruise
Tax free........

71uqV0LHag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-71uqV0LHag

[noddy]

based on the spam i get in emails and used to get on my old icq account i think pussy riot is the appropriate title for the russian thread.

yikes,i probably sounded like spengler then.

[Azrael]

Here are photos of a Pussy Riot protest at a science museum.

[monster_gardener]

Here are photos of a Pussy Riot protest at a science museum.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Azrael.........

But IMVHO you should put a NSFW warning with the link.....