Pope Down
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Pope Down
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstt ... bruary-28/
Dear Brothers,
I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.
Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.
From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
BENEDICTUS PP XVI
Dear Brothers,
I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.
Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.
From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
BENEDICTUS PP XVI
Been busy doing stuff
- Endovelico
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Re: Pope Down
Let's hope that the next Pope comes from Latin America and is a bit more receptive to a revival of the liberation theology. Stupidly - if I may say so - the more conservative wing of the Catholic Church did not understand that Liberation Theology was a bigger danger to Latin American communists and marxists, than Marxism was to Catholics...
- monster_gardener
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Pray that the next Pope is at least as good as the last....
Thank You Very Much for the Thread, HoosierNorm
Praying that the next Pope is at least as good as the last...
IIRC one of the last times a Pope resigned, the next one, Boniface the Perp who Persuaded the Pope to Pass, was a BAD one...... Dante put the Pope who resigned in the outermost circle of the Inferno with the indecisive.......... And put Boniface VIII deeper in Hell with the Simonists.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Bonif ... #Biography
And there has been talk for sometime that per one Referrer that the next Pope will be the last and be a BAD one......
As far as Socialism in the Church goes, IMVHO given our Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey natures, religion is one of the few ways to make socialism work long term...........
Monks, Nuns and Hutterites do it.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
And the Jesuits in Paraguay seem to have been doing a good job with it till their work was largely but not totally suppressed.........
But even the Original Opossums oops I mean Apostles had trouble making socialism work.......
Politically Latin America could be a good choice but remembering the last Papal Election where the speculation was that the next Pope might be a Black African........
Again praying that the Cardinals chose the man G_d wants and not a Dirty Bird like Boniface.......
On a humorous note, it appears that Pope Benedict gave the Church 2 weeks notice.......
Praying that the next Pope is at least as good as the last...
IIRC one of the last times a Pope resigned, the next one, Boniface the Perp who Persuaded the Pope to Pass, was a BAD one...... Dante put the Pope who resigned in the outermost circle of the Inferno with the indecisive.......... And put Boniface VIII deeper in Hell with the Simonists.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Bonif ... #Biography
And there has been talk for sometime that per one Referrer that the next Pope will be the last and be a BAD one......
As far as Socialism in the Church goes, IMVHO given our Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey natures, religion is one of the few ways to make socialism work long term...........
Monks, Nuns and Hutterites do it.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
And the Jesuits in Paraguay seem to have been doing a good job with it till their work was largely but not totally suppressed.........
But even the Original Opossums oops I mean Apostles had trouble making socialism work.......
Politically Latin America could be a good choice but remembering the last Papal Election where the speculation was that the next Pope might be a Black African........
Again praying that the Cardinals chose the man G_d wants and not a Dirty Bird like Boniface.......
On a humorous note, it appears that Pope Benedict gave the Church 2 weeks notice.......
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
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Re: Pray that the next Pope is at least as good as the last
I hadn't thought of it that way, that is rather funny.monster_gardener wrote:On a humorous note, it appears that Pope Benedict gave the Church 2 weeks notice.......
Been busy doing stuff
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Re: Pope Down
Welcome Peter the Roman and your reign over the tribulation and end of the church.
Now we'll see if Mr. Perfect is right or not.
Now we'll see if Mr. Perfect is right or not.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Pope Down
My favorite reaction so far has been:
"Well, he's German; if he says he can't get the job done no more, he can't get the job done."
"Well, he's German; if he says he can't get the job done no more, he can't get the job done."
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Re: Pope Down
Enki wrote:Welcome Peter the Roman and your reign over the tribulation and end of the church.
Now we'll see if Mr. Perfect is right or not.
Keep in mind I am Not Catholic and so won't vouch for their prophecies, but boy is this popcorn worthy. *munching*
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Pope Down
Agreed.Mr. Perfect wrote:Enki wrote:Welcome Peter the Roman and your reign over the tribulation and end of the church.
Now we'll see if Mr. Perfect is right or not.
Keep in mind I am Not Catholic and so won't vouch for their prophecies, but boy is this popcorn worthy. *munching*
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
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Re: Pope Down
http://www.amazon.com/The-Red-Hat-Ralph ... 0898706815
I would think that having a living ex pope there to stand by the election of either another conservative Pope (too much for the liberal Italians to bear) or a non European Pope which would be destructive to the church in Europe as an institution (what's left of it) but also the possibility of a conservative non European which would possibly provide the possibility of the election of an anti-pope by a subset of liberal cardinals. Let's see if the current pope lives long enough to withstand the election.
Yeah the prophecy stuff is interesting but not as interesting as the reality of what this means for the future of the church.
I would think that having a living ex pope there to stand by the election of either another conservative Pope (too much for the liberal Italians to bear) or a non European Pope which would be destructive to the church in Europe as an institution (what's left of it) but also the possibility of a conservative non European which would possibly provide the possibility of the election of an anti-pope by a subset of liberal cardinals. Let's see if the current pope lives long enough to withstand the election.
Yeah the prophecy stuff is interesting but not as interesting as the reality of what this means for the future of the church.
Been busy doing stuff
Re: Pope Down
Methinks St. Malachy will simply join the long list of failed apocalyptic prophecies. If the Church goes, it will be with a whimper not a bang.
- Endovelico
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Re: Pope Down
João Braz de Aviz and Odilo Pedro Scherer are two Brazilian cardinals who may have a chance.
- Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Pope Down
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Ratzinger, a good friend of Franz Josef Strauss, more and less a fascist mindset .. same school as long time UN head, Kurt Waldheim
Look, Endo, what Catholic church now needs, B4 too late, is a Catholic KHOMEINI .. a revolutionary
Ratzinger was a mistake .. he represented the good old days .. he regressive and no progressive
.
Ratzinger, a good friend of Franz Josef Strauss, more and less a fascist mindset .. same school as long time UN head, Kurt Waldheim
Look, Endo, what Catholic church now needs, B4 too late, is a Catholic KHOMEINI .. a revolutionary
Ratzinger was a mistake .. he represented the good old days .. he regressive and no progressive
.
Re: Pope Down
Is there a precedent for a still living pope to resign?
Going by memory, I recall the reigning pope having passed away before a new one was elected.
To speculate, is this an unprecedented case of preemptive damage control by the RC executive regarding the ongoing sex scandals?
Going by memory, I recall the reigning pope having passed away before a new one was elected.
To speculate, is this an unprecedented case of preemptive damage control by the RC executive regarding the ongoing sex scandals?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Pope Down
The man just resigned and HoosierNorm is already talking about anti-popes. [which have yet to be found by CERN]
The "liberal" cardinals and bishops tend to be of the Modernist variety, and Modernists don't like to upset the applecart. It's the secret and impenetrable meanings and symbols that the applecart conveys that is important to them.
The rest, like his Eminence Cardinal Mahoney, are pretty out there; and dare I say, too heretical to make a dent in the institute.
As for anti-popes in general, that's not how things roll nowadays. Post-Reformation you threaten outright schism. And the Church has seen several in that time period- always small but deeply divided; and if there were a break today it would come in Austria.
The "liberal" cardinals and bishops tend to be of the Modernist variety, and Modernists don't like to upset the applecart. It's the secret and impenetrable meanings and symbols that the applecart conveys that is important to them.
The rest, like his Eminence Cardinal Mahoney, are pretty out there; and dare I say, too heretical to make a dent in the institute.
As for anti-popes in general, that's not how things roll nowadays. Post-Reformation you threaten outright schism. And the Church has seen several in that time period- always small but deeply divided; and if there were a break today it would come in Austria.
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Pope Down
Typhoon wrote:Is there a precedent for a still living pope to resign?
Going by memory, I recall the reigning pope having passed away before a new one was elected.
This is the first abdication in 598 years. Gregory XII resigned to help end the Western Schism. Of course, behind the scenes at that Council of Constance, he had a huge influence on picking his successor. He was then given a bishopric of his own and died only 2 years after his abdication.
No, it is not in Benedict's temperament to abdicate for any other reason than he is not physically or mentally able to do it. He's been looking to resign for the past 20 years- having twice handed in a resignation letter to the previous Pontiff. His brother, who is a bit older than him, has gone deaf and blind and I have a hunch that either the same thing is happening to him or he expects its onset very soon. Consider this as well,To speculate, is this an unprecedented case of preemptive damage control by the RC executive regarding the ongoing sex scandals?
Of course, some may argue that he's always been deaf and blind but that is a different matter.
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pope Down
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:The man just resigned and HoosierNorm is already talking about anti-popes. [which have yet to be found by CERN]
The Anti Pope project didn't get the funding that the CERN project did and it's findings were written in the margins of a dead sea scroll that was lost in the library after being misfiled, probably lost forever.
Been busy doing stuff
Re: Pope Down
Thanks for that interesting bit of history.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Typhoon wrote:Is there a precedent for a still living pope to resign?
Going by memory, I recall the reigning pope having passed away before a new one was elected.
This is the first abdication in 598 years. Gregory XII resigned to help end the Western Schism. Of course, behind the scenes at that Council of Constance, he had a huge influence on picking his successor. He was then given a bishopric of his own and died only 2 years after his abdication.
Yes, it could be for very plausible all to human reasons.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:No, it is not in Benedict's temperament to abdicate for any other reason than he is not physically or mentally able to do it. He's been looking to resign for the past 20 years- having twice handed in a resignation letter to the previous Pontiff. His brother, who is a bit older than him, has gone deaf and blind and I have a hunch that either the same thing is happening to him or he expects its onset very soon. Consider this as well,To speculate, is this an unprecedented case of preemptive damage control by the RC executive regarding the ongoing sex scandals?
Indeed. However, the conspiracy theorists are going to have a lot of fun with this news.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Of course, some may argue that he's always been deaf and blind but that is a different matter.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
- Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Pope Down
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ViVa the New Pope , the Real One
Why not ? ? ?
The only impediment could be, he STRAIGHT .. loves woman
.
ViVa the New Pope , the Real One
Why not ? ? ?
The only impediment could be, he STRAIGHT .. loves woman
.
Re: Pope Down
A Khomeini-like Pope?Heracleum Persicum wrote:Look, Endo, what Catholic church now needs, B4 too late, is a Catholic KHOMEINI .. a revolutionary
So he would:
- send the Swiss guards take hostage the American ambassador in Vatican...
- enlist Catholic children to die on minefields with "key to Heavens" as necklace...
- have uranium centrifugation units installed in Vatican caves...
No, thank you.
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Re: Pope Down
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... 000-years/
The bizarre stories of the four other popes to have resigned in the last 1,000 years
Been busy doing stuff
Re: Pope Down
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Pope Down
As it was said:
Conscientia mea iterum atque iterum coram Deo explorata ad cognitionem certam perveni vires meas ingravescente aetate non iam aptas esse ad munus Petrinum aeque administrandum
The Italian journalist Giovanna Chirri -fluent in Latin- was the first to understand what the Pope has said, and to spread the news.
(*) For those who might be unable to understand: "After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry"
Conscientia mea iterum atque iterum coram Deo explorata ad cognitionem certam perveni vires meas ingravescente aetate non iam aptas esse ad munus Petrinum aeque administrandum
The Italian journalist Giovanna Chirri -fluent in Latin- was the first to understand what the Pope has said, and to spread the news.
(*) For those who might be unable to understand: "After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry"
Re: Pope Down
I'm calling Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Pope Down
No, a bit too 15th century, that.Alexis wrote:A Khomeini-like Pope?Heracleum Persicum wrote:Look, Endo, what Catholic church now needs, B4 too late, is a Catholic KHOMEINI .. a revolutionary
So he would:
- send the Swiss guards take hostage the American ambassador in Vatican...
- enlist Catholic children to die on minefields with "key to Heavens" as necklace...
- have uranium centrifugation units installed in Vatican caves...
No, thank you.
Oh wait a minute, that is what it is in the Islamic calendar... appropriate, perhaps.