The original article I posted is from Salon.com a self professed progressive web site. I give them credit for admitting to the progressives' very dark past. But my point is that they have consistently felt they know what is best for others. Even when they say things like "PERIOD" Like I said in another thread all you ave to do is look at the comments section of any Obamacare article to see that this is not culture war It is a pocket book / third rail of politics issue that is not going to go away anytime soon no matter where one looks. Just watch Obamcare is the gift- energizer bunny. It is going to keep giving and giving and givingTyphoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
The one thing that progressives and conservatives have in common is that both sides believe that they know what is best for others.Doc wrote:The original article I posted is from Salon.com a self professed progressive web site. I give them credit for admitting to the progressives' very dark past. But my point is that they have consistently felt they know what is best for others. Even when they say things like "PERIOD" Like I said in another thread all you ave to do is look at the comments section of any Obamacare article to see that this is not culture war It is a pocket book / third rail of politics issue that is not going to go away anytime soon no matter where one looks. Just watch Obamcare is the gift- energizer bunny. It is going to keep giving and giving and givingTyphoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
true nuff. If I can't convince you that I have your best interests at heart, then the least I can do is to try to convince you that the other guy wants to stick it up your poop chute, and I'm your best defense!Typhoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
"A man that has no virtue in himself, ever envies virtue in others, for men's minds will either feed upon their own good or upon other's evil, and he who lacks the one will prey upon the other."
Fancis Bacon
"If you let yourself be made out in the right by another, you must no less let yourself be made out in the wrong by him. If approval and reward come to you from another, you must also expect his disapproval and punishment."
Max Stirner
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Lesbian eugenics marches on with "Designer Baby" firm Genepeeks
cultivate a white rose
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Great link Azrael. I am wondering if a gene for example autism was found that had a 1 in a 1,000 chance of expression in a child would people select the gene out of existence ? Even if the same gene pattern went along with say high intelligence? It seems like playing God can be tough.Azrael wrote:Lesbian eugenics marches on with "Designer Baby" firm Genepeeks
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
If only I could live tax and government free in my own country.Typhoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
As fanciful a wish as a worker's paradise on earth.Mr. Perfect wrote:If only I could live tax and government free in my own country.Typhoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
LOL, then it wouldn't be a country.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Enki wrote:LOL, then it wouldn't be a country.
That's what they all say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
You're kidding right?Doc wrote:Enki wrote:LOL, then it wouldn't be a country.
That's what they all say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Kidding about what? ;)Or did that double entendre go right over your head? Though by some definitions of statehood Germany and Britain do recognize Sealand.Enki wrote:You're kidding right?Doc wrote:Enki wrote:LOL, then it wouldn't be a country.
That's what they all say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
With an attitude like that.Typhoon wrote:As fanciful a wish as a worker's paradise on earth.Mr. Perfect wrote:If only I could live tax and government free in my own country.Typhoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Spoken like a true leftist. Can't imagine a country or community without a state.Enki wrote:LOL, then it wouldn't be a country.
I'm always a man of compromise. How about we meet in the middle and agree to a 50-75% reduction in government and taxes.
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
No. Simply historical precedent and current trends; human nature.Mr. Perfect wrote:With an attitude like that.Typhoon wrote:As fanciful a wish as a worker's paradise on earth.Mr. Perfect wrote:If only I could live tax and government free in my own country.Typhoon wrote:The only thing I've learned from this discussion is that N Am conservatives and progressive lives entirely rent free in each other's heads.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
People say that racism is human nature and has historical precedent.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Same thing with moderates.Typhoon wrote: The one thing that progressives and conservatives have in common is that both sides believe that they know what is best for others.
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
People say a lot of things which may or may not be correct.Mr. Perfect wrote:People say that racism is human nature and has historical precedent.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Seems to be true more often of "them"..... rather than "us".... which is why "we" so often disagree......Typhoon wrote:
People say a lot of things which may or may not be correct.
or as the wise philosopher noted: "Us is flux."
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
Good thread (once one ignores the usual right vs left hyperbole). Between zeitgeist & technology, the stars (tools & desire) are aligning that will make eugenics “socially acceptable” (once again), in the form of irrestiable incentives to cull those who can not pick as many potatoes from society. Ironically, as always, it will be the advocates of “the common good” who will most enthusiastically support the culling of the undesirables from society.
Tying in to another current topic: If the minimum wage is raised from say $8/hour to $15/hour, the employee who is of $8/hour caliber will be blown out of the labor force by the person of $15/hour caliber applying for the job in which the person of $8/hr caliber was formerly secure. Add to that the incentives for employers to automate or eliminate the jobs that were formerly economically viable when labor was available at $8/hour…... and voila’ new problems are created, and incentives to use the “new tools” will increase.
The incentive for retirees (who can do the math of making change in their heads) to come out out of retirement also increases. None of this is good for the peson of $8/hr caliber. Who is at fault? Evil capitalists.....? Parents...? AHA!!!
When you add government controlled health services (the cost of everyone’s life is everyone else’s responsibility, so the perverse incentives to meddle or fix (no pun intended) the lives of others increase), responsible stewardship of limited resources, genetic mapping, and the compassionate battle cry of the ideologues to “Lets just do something…. anything for the common good!”….. the notion that it is compassionate to prevent people of sub $15/hour caliber from breeding will soon become socially acceptable….. all in the name of “alleviating their suffering” or “for the common good.”
This thread reminds me of an article I read 20 or 30 years ago in which an academic made the very convincing case that one of the most important influences in the reduction of crime over previous decades was the legalization of abortion. Made sense to me, give those most likely to resent becoming parents an out, and society will suffer the social burden of unwanted children becoming dysfunctional adults to a lesser extent.
People.... somebody oughta do something....
Tying in to another current topic: If the minimum wage is raised from say $8/hour to $15/hour, the employee who is of $8/hour caliber will be blown out of the labor force by the person of $15/hour caliber applying for the job in which the person of $8/hr caliber was formerly secure. Add to that the incentives for employers to automate or eliminate the jobs that were formerly economically viable when labor was available at $8/hour…... and voila’ new problems are created, and incentives to use the “new tools” will increase.
The incentive for retirees (who can do the math of making change in their heads) to come out out of retirement also increases. None of this is good for the peson of $8/hr caliber. Who is at fault? Evil capitalists.....? Parents...? AHA!!!
When you add government controlled health services (the cost of everyone’s life is everyone else’s responsibility, so the perverse incentives to meddle or fix (no pun intended) the lives of others increase), responsible stewardship of limited resources, genetic mapping, and the compassionate battle cry of the ideologues to “Lets just do something…. anything for the common good!”….. the notion that it is compassionate to prevent people of sub $15/hour caliber from breeding will soon become socially acceptable….. all in the name of “alleviating their suffering” or “for the common good.”
This thread reminds me of an article I read 20 or 30 years ago in which an academic made the very convincing case that one of the most important influences in the reduction of crime over previous decades was the legalization of abortion. Made sense to me, give those most likely to resent becoming parents an out, and society will suffer the social burden of unwanted children becoming dysfunctional adults to a lesser extent.
People.... somebody oughta do something....
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
A crude form of eugenics is already done in parts of Asia [and elsewhere?]: determining the gender of a fetus as soon as possible and aborting if it is a girl.
In some nations, this has resulted in a significant excess of males over females with the potential problems this entails.
In some nations, this has resulted in a significant excess of males over females with the potential problems this entails.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
I was thinking the same thing when I was posting "Is Eugenics Ever Okay?" China's one child policy was only for the poor and un politically connected. I knew a women that was a third child of CCP privileged parents.Typhoon wrote:A crude form of eugenics is already done in parts of Asia [and elsewhere?]: determining the gender of a fetus as soon as possible and aborting if it is a girl.
In some nations, this has resulted in a significant excess of males over females with the potential problems this entails.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
True enough.Typhoon wrote: People say a lot of things which may or may not be correct.
Typhoon wrote: As fanciful a wish as a worker's paradise on earth.
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Progressives and Eugenics: Knowing whats best for others
All Chinese are equal, but members of the CCP are more equal than others.Doc wrote:I was thinking the same thing when I was posting "Is Eugenics Ever Okay?" China's one child policy was only for the poor and un politically connected. I knew a women that was a third child of CCP privileged parents.Typhoon wrote:A crude form of eugenics is already done in parts of Asia [and elsewhere?]: determining the gender of a fetus as soon as possible and aborting if it is a girl.
In some nations, this has resulted in a significant excess of males over females with the potential problems this entails.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.