Re: Iran
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:14 pm
Another day in the Universe
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https://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43
Iranians Are Rising Up in Against Brutal Khamenei Regime — PROTEST VIDEOS
There were also chants in Mashhad of "not Gaza, not Lebanon, my life for Iran", a reference to what protesters say is the administration's focus on foreign policy rather than domestic issues.
Fars reported that protesters in Kermanshah chanted anti-government slogans such as "never mind Palestine, think about us", "death or freedom" and "political prisoners should be freed." They damaged some public property before police dispersed them.
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.. 40 percent jump in the price of eggs. ..
The key thing that U.S. politicians and policymakers need to keep in mind is that internal protests in Iran are not about us, and they are not an “opportunity” for us to exploit.
The U.S. should publicly say as little as possible about the protests except to condemn the use of force against peaceful protesters, and it should not otherwise attempt to insert itself into the situation or interfere.
There is not much that the U.S. could practically do in any case, and none of it would be helpful or constructive.
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The Trump administration in particular has no credibility with Iranians, and any expressions of support it offers are likely both unwanted by and harmful to the intended recipients.
The administration cannot ban Iranians from the U.S. at the start of the year, and then suddenly pretend that it respects them and supports their aspirations at the end.
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It would be far wiser and better for the U.S. and the Iranian people if our government allowed events in Iran to unfold without comment from Washington.
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Wrtetchard's take on the matter:Derek wrote:Obama, Rhodes and Jarrett saw the Iranians as a solution to everything they hated about the Middle East. US influence, the Saudis, Israel. They saw them as natural allies, and did everything possible to change US policy. They liked the mad mullahs, what they said tickled their vanity. The reflexive anti americanism was the air they inhabited for decades in the Academy and Democratic party environments. The enemies of Iran were everyone that Obama hated.
https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/be ... lan-along/If managed poorly enough [Iran] had the potential to be another Venezuela. To the credit of the Iranians, it was much more functional. Still, their economy had long been in the doldrums due to a depressed oil market and sanctions arising from a confrontation with America. Per capita GDP had dropped from a high of $6,428 in 2011 to a dismal $5,758 in 2015. It was this weakness the Obama administration sought to exploit.
Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Wrtetchard's take on the matter:Derek wrote:Obama, Rhodes and Jarrett saw the Iranians as a solution to everything they hated about the Middle East. US influence, the Saudis, Israel. They saw them as natural allies, and did everything possible to change US policy. They liked the mad mullahs, what they said tickled their vanity. The reflexive anti americanism was the air they inhabited for decades in the Academy and Democratic party environments. The enemies of Iran were everyone that Obama hated.
https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/be ... lan-along/If managed poorly enough [Iran] had the potential to be another Venezuela. To the credit of the Iranians, it was much more functional. Still, their economy had long been in the doldrums due to a depressed oil market and sanctions arising from a confrontation with America. Per capita GDP had dropped from a high of $6,428 in 2011 to a dismal $5,758 in 2015. It was this weakness the Obama administration sought to exploit.
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http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/252332/ ... ts-in-iran
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Simple Minded wrote:.
HP,
Does this mean that Iran is getting it's sh1t together enough that you would consider moving back soon, or are you waiting for something else to happen?
If so, what else would you like to see the people of Iran do ?
thanks in advance.
SM
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:.
HP - and what I see from various twitter feeds, Iranian people are quite fed up casting their fate with the Southern Peninsula and the 'occupied territories' and wish to strike out on their own. Some bloggers might be more radical than others, but their sentiments are reflected elsewhere:
https://twitter.com/Atheist_Iran/with_replies
https://twitter.com/HoAbedini/with_replies
Blessed Iran, I'd love to see Persia come back again. A serious people and a serious civilisation; not a clutch of pampered, tribal kleptocrats maintained because useful to a corrupt and rather vile western ideology - Globalism?....... Wilsonianism?? A cabal of elites that will enlighten the world and remake it in their own image. Humiliating, insulting and more than a bit mendacious. World peace will come from talking truth and speaking from the heart in honesty, not from thinking alike and denying oneself. Not by professing to values and principles that are abstract, anti-human and anti-life. We'll see where this goes, it's better than the road we're on. Better for USA and Israel too, though it might be bitter-tart for a bit .....
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Doc wrote:The Iranian Statue of Liberty
The MSM has been ignoring what is going on in Iran Maybe they are colluding with the Russians? Maybe it hurts their anti-Trump narrative Maybe both.
What has brought Iranian protesters to the streets?
What are the main demands of protesters?
Iranians across the country want higher wages and an end to alleged graft. Many also question the wisdom of Iran’s foreign policy in the Middle East, where it has intervened in Syria and Iraq in a battle for influence with rival Saudi Arabia.
The country’s financial support for Palestinians and the Lebanese Shi‘ite group Hezbollah also angered Iranians, who want their government to focus on domestic economic problems instead.
The wide spectrum of slogans showed that the wave of demonstrations cover a range of social classes who have different demands.
Unlike the unrest in 2009, the latest protests appear to be more spontaneous without a clear leader. This may be a more dangerous scenario for authorities, because it means they cannot round up the figureheads, a solution that was employed in 2009.
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Policymakers and pundits cannot change this simple truth :
The problems are Iranian, the protestors are Iranian, and the solution will be Iranian.
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HP, thanks for the reply.Heracleum Persicum wrote:
You asking 2 questions
1 ) Historically, Iranians never immigrated, not even within Iran .. reason for that is, Iran is a multi ethnic country (each province in reality one ethnic) and each big city is the capital of that ethnicity .. For Iranians moving from one Iranian city to another Iranian city happenes only in a multi generational time frame. My father moved from Tabriz to Tehran late 1920's .. One develops a community for generations , one knows everybody last few generations.
But, now, many children of Iranians out side are born in Western countries, have job in west, have married western partners, have business etc, they might speak Farsi too, but most cant read and write Farsi (Tehran university has special Farsi course for fast Track Iranian raised in West) .. but, also, these kids raised with western mentality, they will have difficulty in Iranian society now .. never the less, if things fall in line with what happened in China down the road, yes, most Iranians will go back, would say at least 50% , probably 75%.
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He has to be careful what he says, so as not to anger the mad mullahs in Ottawa.Simple Minded wrote:HP, thanks for the reply.Heracleum Persicum wrote:
You asking 2 questions
1 ) Historically, Iranians never immigrated, not even within Iran .. reason for that is, Iran is a multi ethnic country (each province in reality one ethnic) and each big city is the capital of that ethnicity .. For Iranians moving from one Iranian city to another Iranian city happenes only in a multi generational time frame. My father moved from Tabriz to Tehran late 1920's .. One develops a community for generations , one knows everybody last few generations.
But, now, many children of Iranians out side are born in Western countries, have job in west, have married western partners, have business etc, they might speak Farsi too, but most cant read and write Farsi (Tehran university has special Farsi course for fast Track Iranian raised in West) .. but, also, these kids raised with western mentality, they will have difficulty in Iranian society now .. never the less, if things fall in line with what happened in China down the road, yes, most Iranians will go back, would say at least 50% , probably 75%.
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Interestingly enough, you are describing Appalachia, American ghettos, and all sorts of close knit communities in the US that the power elites in DC and the coastal elites find "deplorable." Concept of 50 state governments wielding the majority of power, with DC only governing some interstate trade and foreign relations is repulsive to those who seek more power over other people. Ability to vote with one's feet scares them.
As I have often said, by many measures, America is a land of zip codes (39,000+ IIRC) as much or more than a single nation.
But you still have not answered my other question, is there something specific you, personally, are hoping will happen in Iran, which will be the indicator for you to sell out in Canada and move to Iran?
Trump’s comments can’t do the protesters any good, and will almost certainly be used against them, but that doesn’t fully capture how stupid they are.
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Trump wants to keep Iranians from coming to the U.S., so it really doesn’t matter to him if they are “hungry” for freedom.
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Trump would like to scrap the nuclear deal and put additional economic pressure on Iran until they make much larger concessions.
This is an unrealistic and misguided goal, but it is also completely at odds with any concern for the well-being of the Iranian people, who have suffered for years under sanctions and would bear the extra burden that additional sanctions would impose.
Iran hawks love to present themselves as friends of the Iranian people so long as they think Iranians are prepared to do what they want (i.e., overthrow the regime), but every policy they support is aimed at impoverishing, harming, vilifying, and excluding Iranians.
It is just a little too obviously two-faced to fool anyone.
It is no surprise that Iranians remember this and have no interest in receiving “support” from the people that otherwise want to bomb them or strangle their country into submission.
It isn’t possible to show unremitting hostility to Iran at every turn without inflicting harm on the people of Iran, and Trump’s policies prove that.
There is nothing that Trump and his hard-liners can say now that will change this.
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Doc wrote:.
He has to be careful what he says, so as not to anger the mad mullahs in Ottawa.Simple Minded wrote:.
But you still have not answered my other question, is there something specific you, personally, are hoping will happen in Iran, which will be the indicator for you to sell out in Canada and move to Iran ?
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Simple Minded wrote:.
But you still have not answered my other question, is there something specific you, personally, are hoping will happen in Iran, which will be the indicator for you to sell out in Canada and move to Iran ?
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HP,Heracleum Persicum wrote:Simple Minded wrote:.
But you still have not answered my other question, is there something specific you, personally, are hoping will happen in Iran, which will be the indicator for you to sell out in Canada and move to Iran ?
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Iran still has a long journey ahead to navigate around wolfs and beast intending harm .. still not out of danger .. once strong enough and no external danger, Iran must go through a social & political "hit and miss" period like Europe did during "Sturm und Drang".
As Iran in key "geopolitical" location, world powers (stake holders) will want meddle .. make things more difficult.
In that sense, things will take "generations" till falling in place for HP to go back, if ever .. unfortunately.
A secular, western style civil society, 100% rule of law are prerogative for going back .. that will happen, as millions of Iranians now living in west will lead things to that direction, but takes time.
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I know on many places in Appalachia that have ZERO crime and people let each other live free.Simple Minded wrote:HP,Heracleum Persicum wrote:Simple Minded wrote:.
But you still have not answered my other question, is there something specific you, personally, are hoping will happen in Iran, which will be the indicator for you to sell out in Canada and move to Iran ?
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Iran still has a long journey ahead to navigate around wolfs and beast intending harm .. still not out of danger .. once strong enough and no external danger, Iran must go through a social & political "hit and miss" period like Europe did during "Sturm und Drang".
As Iran in key "geopolitical" location, world powers (stake holders) will want meddle .. make things more difficult.
In that sense, things will take "generations" till falling in place for HP to go back, if ever .. unfortunately.
A secular, western style civil society, 100% rule of law are prerogative for going back .. that will happen, as millions of Iranians now living in west will lead things to that direction, but takes time.
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I hope you are wrong and that Iran regains it's past level of civilization sooner rather than later.
If not, remember, Appalachia is still within driving distance!
Leaked meeting notes show how panicked Iranian regime considered stopping deadly protests: 'God help us'
EXCLUSIVE – A leaked report provided to Fox News shows how Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei met with political leaders and heads of the country's security forces to discuss how to tamp down on the deadly nationwide protests.
The report covered several meetings up to December 31 and was provided to the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) from what it said were high level sources from within the regime.
The meeting notes, which have been translated into English from Farsi, said the unrest has hurt every sector of the country's economy and “threatens the regime’s security. The first step, therefore, is to find a way out of this situation.”
The report added, “Religious leaders and the leadership must come to the scene as soon as possible and prevent the situation (from) deteriorating further.” It continued, “God help us, this is a very complex situation and is different from previous occasions.”