Re: Firearms and other Weapons
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:08 pm
dBVybnfmTIs
Another day in the Universe
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Hoosiernorm wrote:I hate to tell you this but most conventional forces would jam these bots immediately with simple EW countermeasures. They are only useful against non conventional forces like they have in Afghanistan and civilian targets who don't have EW capacity. Why do you think is was so easy for the Iranians to down the RQ-170.cdgt wrote:A Saiga 12 with a drum mag. Trying to defend against swarms like that, trap-shooting on steroids.
Typhoon wrote:dBVybnfmTIs
Well of course you are...... until you start doing something that pisses someone off...cdgt wrote:Hoosiernorm wrote:I hate to tell you this but most conventional forces would jam these bots immediately with simple EW countermeasures. They are only useful against non conventional forces like they have in Afghanistan and civilian targets who don't have EW capacity. Why do you think is was so easy for the Iranians to down the RQ-170.cdgt wrote:A Saiga 12 with a drum mag. Trying to defend against swarms like that, trap-shooting on steroids.
I was under the impression that I was a civilian...
Inconceivable.Hoosiernorm wrote:Well of course you are...... until you start doing something that pisses someone off...cdgt wrote:Hoosiernorm wrote:I hate to tell you this but most conventional forces would jam these bots immediately with simple EW countermeasures. They are only useful against non conventional forces like they have in Afghanistan and civilian targets who don't have EW capacity. Why do you think is was so easy for the Iranians to down the RQ-170.cdgt wrote:A Saiga 12 with a drum mag. Trying to defend against swarms like that, trap-shooting on steroids.
I was under the impression that I was a civilian...
I objected to the "do not pass go, go directly to handgun" advice....
Most likely you want a handgun. They are small, easy to have in a place where you can get it quickly and easy to operate. Rifles can be very good for home defense but they are unwieldy and can be stronger than what you need and more difficult to operate. Shotguns are great for home defense. They are powerful, reliable, incredibly effective and relatively easy to use. On the down side they have considerable recoil, and if you are a new shooter it may be more difficult to get used to shooting it comfortably and you may be restricted on where you can practice shooting. Many ranges are handgun only.
...
I would imagine the weapons platform would take advantage of night cover to evade simple swats at the rotors. I think it was the fact that such a platform is for hunting specific human beings on a very personal level is what bothered me. Imagine how many mini sortie hits you could perform at a very low cost. Cruise missiles are bad for collateral damage, imagine being able to overfly a target several thousand times with strike capabilities albeit primitive capacities for a few hundred dollars a day. Now add the capacity to rig an explosive to it that would detonate at about the same proximity as a suicide bomber. You could suicide bomb a village square into a ghost town in a matter of days.cdgt wrote:Inconceivable.Hoosiernorm wrote:Well of course you are...... until you start doing something that pisses someone off...cdgt wrote:Hoosiernorm wrote:I hate to tell you this but most conventional forces would jam these bots immediately with simple EW countermeasures. They are only useful against non conventional forces like they have in Afghanistan and civilian targets who don't have EW capacity. Why do you think is was so easy for the Iranians to down the RQ-170.cdgt wrote:A Saiga 12 with a drum mag. Trying to defend against swarms like that, trap-shooting on steroids.
I was under the impression that I was a civilian...
After a while, this gets into a Spy vs. Spy escalation of EW, EW hardening..., not the stuff of which I plan to partake.
The original demo that Typhoon posted showed a single, big device (itself its own large target), that had to get pretty darn close to its own targets--and didn't always connect at those short ranges. It would be relatively easy to bring down at that range, even without EW tools. A single shot 12ga with buckshot should suffice. (Now, if it could do its work at a quarter mile or so, that would be problematic...) Conversely, a swarm of quasi indiscriminant IED's would be a real challenge, the mother of all trapshooting events, with your (civilian) life on the line.
My thoughts are thinking about a first gun makes my head feel like it will explode.
Except for CCW and a genuine commitment to extensive practice, I cannot imagine anything worse than a centerfire handgun as a first gun.Mr. Perfect wrote:My thoughts are thinking about a first gun makes my head feel like it will explode.
The only real question is will it be a 22 or not. Toss a coin and get on with it I guess.
A sawed-off .20 gauge for home defense, a .45 ACP for carry . . simple as that . . .Mr. Perfect wrote:My thoughts are thinking about a first gun makes my head feel like it will explode.
The only real question is will it be a 22 or not. Toss a coin and get on with it I guess.
Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience). A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.Marcus wrote:A sawed-off .20 gauge for home defense, a .45 ACP for carry . . simple as that . . .Mr. Perfect wrote:My thoughts are thinking about a first gun makes my head feel like it will explode.
The only real question is will it be a 22 or not. Toss a coin and get on with it I guess.
Agree on the non-semi thing . . go for a pump . . even the sound of a round being racked is something of a deterrent.Hoosiernorm wrote:Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience). A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.
Yes, but a .22 with a terminal seeker and nano-flechettes sub-munitions.Marcus wrote:Agree on the non-semi thing . . go for a pump . . even the sound of a round being racked is something of a deterrent.Hoosiernorm wrote:Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience). A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.
Gotta go with the .45. Back in college ROTC our instructor, an Army colonel, told us the .45 ACP was simply the most devastating, man-stopping cartridge ever conceived . . hit a man anywhere with it, and he may not be dead, but he's out of commission. Our colonel said he was, by accident, shot through the palm of the hand by a .45, and it knocked him unconscious.
If I seriously believed I needed to carry, I want a round I can trust . . or at least think I can trust.
You guys ever ponder the reduction in size of military rounds over the years? Revolutionary War muskets were about .75 caliber; Civil War down to .59; Indian Wars at .45; Spanish-American used, what, a 30-40 Krag? The world wars . . .30 caliber? What now? .22?
Hoosiernorm wrote:Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience).
Well, I've settled on a .40 S&W but have no illusions of awesome knockdown. But 15 round mags are comforting.Hoosiernorm wrote:A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.
cdgt wrote:Hoosiernorm wrote:Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience).
Do tell. .
I hope you have a routine to keep the weapon out of the reach of others. Having them around always invites them to be picked up for some reason, which can lead to bad situations. In a safe box inside of a drawer that is not immediately available is a good spot.cdgt wrote:Well, I've settled on a .40 S&W but have no illusions of awesome knockdown. But 15 round mags are comforting.Hoosiernorm wrote:A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.
If you're going the revolver route (me and revolvers have a genetic incompatibility) I'd humbly suggest a compact .357 Mag (Ruger SP?) and shoot 95% .38 Spcls. But I'd carry it with the .357 Mags (125gr JHP, probably) loaded in it. If I carried a revolver. Of course a .44Mag / .44Spcl would be better, except the gun size / weight starts getting astronomical pretty fast.
Man I have seen guys show up for trap shoots and turkey shoots that look like bizarre cartoon versions of human beings. Dressed in everything from cowboy outfits to surplus military gear that is both odd and unrealistic. The amount of gear that is sold that is both non functional and actually limiting is really quite astounding. Some of the vendors at gun shows blow me away with the costume gear that they sell to enthusiast. It is really a subculture that derives its sense of identity from all sorts of oddities. After awhile one fetish is indistinguishable from the otherMr. Perfect wrote:And Hoosier, we've REALLY got to work on your sexualization of inanimate objects, I am now officially concerned.
If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it swims like a duck it's probably a duck.Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm not sure it goes that deep. I think for many people it's not really to do with sex.
That's odd. Ordinarily a shotgun at indoors distance doesn't open up like that. I understand (haven't tried it) that the best way to achieve that effect (if you want a big spread at short distances) is to shoot a shotshell out of a rifled shotgun barrel.Hoosiernorm wrote:Had a 20 gauge double barrel that had a defective firing pin and brought it to the gun smith (This is the same type weapon that my brother was injured with for the same reason. He replaced the firing pin and was showing me his handy work when he cocked the breach really quickly and the weapon discharged in his shop. Thank god no one was in that room because the shot pattern covered the wall almost completely. Since neither one of us could hear the other one talking was not an option and due to the immediate shock of the situation I simply took the weapon from him and left to go to another gun smith to have it repaired correctly.cdgt wrote:Hoosiernorm wrote:Full Choke 20 gauge (Non Semi Automatic) they semi's jam when you need them the most. Don't saw it off because it will put too big a hole in the wall (Personal Experience).
Do tell. .
I certainly don't leave them laying around in plain sight. Right now, I only have a .22LR handgun for cheap practice. The Glock is coming soon, I think--looking for a good deal on a G23 police trade-in if I can find one. Fun show this weekend, so I'm hopeful. In the mean time, my Sub-2000 is my long barreled, shoulder-stocked 'handgun' and uses 15 round G22 mags. For protecting the dwelling, if one doesn't go the shotgun route, the Sub-2000 would serve most newbies better than a centerfire handgun. Much harder to shoot yourself with it.Hoosiernorm wrote:I hope you have a routine to keep the weapon out of the reach of others. Having them around always invites them to be picked up for some reason, which can lead to bad situations. In a safe box inside of a drawer that is not immediately available is a good spot.cdgt wrote:Well, I've settled on a .40 S&W but have no illusions of awesome knockdown. But 15 round mags are comforting.Hoosiernorm wrote:A 45 is too damn big to carry around all day and the holsters selections are between leather kink and military kink. Prefer a 38 any day largely due to size and ammo costs. If it's that close to shoot with a concealed weapon then it doesn't have to be especially accurate.
If you're going the revolver route (me and revolvers have a genetic incompatibility) I'd humbly suggest a compact .357 Mag (Ruger SP?) and shoot 95% .38 Spcls. But I'd carry it with the .357 Mags (125gr JHP, probably) loaded in it. If I carried a revolver. Of course a .44Mag / .44Spcl would be better, except the gun size / weight starts getting astronomical pretty fast.
It doesn't walk, quack or swim like a duck though.Hoosiernorm wrote:If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it swims like a duck it's probably a duck.Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm not sure it goes that deep. I think for many people it's not really to do with sex.