Issues of Race in the USA

[noddy]

i think the main point I was getting at is much is made of various undefinable spirits - american or australian or whatever.

while their is definately some truths to some of it, most of that kind of talk is just retrospectively coming up with silly philosophies that describe the crude appearances of things at that stage in the game.

most of what we had in the new world was lack of ruthlessly defined classes - their wasnt centuries or millenia of ossification on the order of things and nobodies could upset the status quo fluidly.

this is the lands of oppurtunities, of entrepeneurship, of good luck, of frontier spirit blah blah blah.

those ossifications are now starting to set in , which is frustrating to some people who think it would stay new and chaotic forever but that isnt going to happen.

the progressive middle class entrenching itself in the position of identifier and fixer of problems, ala the priesthood of old, is part of that process.

genius part of it is you cant seperate church and state if your an atheist, truly the master stroke that leaves all the rhetoric 2 steps behind.

hence, the understandable, but ultimately futile, attempt by the christians to try and point out the relgious nature of this new atheism

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

i think the main point I was getting at is much is made of various undefinable spirits - american or australian or whatever.

while their is definately some truths to some of it, most of that kind of talk is just retrospectively coming up with silly philosophies that describe the crude appearances of things at that stage in the game.

most of what we had in the new world was lack of ruthlessly defined classes - their wasnt centuries or millenia of ossification on the order of things and nobodies could upset the status quo fluidly.

this is the lands of oppurtunities, of entrepeneurship, of good luck, of frontier spirit blah blah blah.

those ossifications are now starting to set in , which is frustrating to some people who think it would stay new and chaotic forever but that isnt going to happen.

the progressive middle class entrenching itself in the position of identifier and fixer of problems, ala the priesthood of old, is part of that process.

genius part of it is you cant seperate church and state if your an atheist, truly the master stroke that leaves all the rhetoric 2 steps behind.

hence, the understandable, but ultimately futile, attempt by the christians to try and point out the relgious nature of this new atheism

I see the argument but I don't know.

It presupposes too much continuity when there is always a mad rush for success to burn itself out.

The successful are excellent immolators.

[Simple Minded]

everytime i get involved in a race discussion in relation to america, I always end up confused.

we have *those* professional victim types here but they mostly dont get the traction amongst the general public.

I think it is an internet thang, a local culture thang, a MSM thang, and a professional politician thang. The other 95%+ of America couldn't care less.

[Simple Minded]

Virginia Student Can Proceed With Lawsuit Over Panel Confrontation

This is priceless! Thanks for posting. One of my friends recently directed his daughter away from UVA and towards Virginia Tech for this reason. The daughter is pretty mature and logical. He figured she would be a target at UVA.

[Simple Minded]

everytime i get involved in a race discussion in relation to america, I always end up confused.

we have *those* professional victim types here but they mostly dont get the traction amongst the general public.

oh, it's coming-- see that article Typhoon posted above-- we are exporting this stuff like crazy and its most effecting the English speaking world (for obvious reasons).

it will only stick noddy if some of your institutions are foolish enough to make being an oppressed victim group member lucrative.

If the professional victims starve, that's a good thing.

[Simple Minded]

micro agressions and all that are perfectly in sync with the middle class passive aggresive world i know and hate.

their interest in subtle racisms and whatnot are all part of their massive interest in the world not treating THEM with as much respect as they feel they are due.

"if you arent a sensitive to my needs as my mum was, you are a nasty person"

what can you even say to those folks ?

"Hey Asshole, News flash! Your mum didn't like you anymore than I do. She just hid it well! BTW, Jesus loves you! Everyone else thinks you're a whiney little crybaby thumb sucking loser who should grow the Hell up!"

Ya gotta start building a dialogue somewhere.....

[Simple Minded]

what can you even say to those folks ?

A trillion dollar question.

See above post. I'll settle for a nice steak dinner and a few beers with you and noddy!"

[Simple Minded]

i think the main point I was getting at is much is made of various undefinable spirits - american or australian or whatever.

while their is definately some truths to some of it, most of that kind of talk is just retrospectively coming up with silly philosophies that describe the crude appearances of things at that stage in the game.

most of what we had in the new world was lack of ruthlessly defined classes - their wasnt centuries or millenia of ossification on the order of things and nobodies could upset the status quo fluidly.

this is the lands of oppurtunities, of entrepeneurship, of good luck, of frontier spirit blah blah blah.

those ossifications are now starting to set in , which is frustrating to some people who think it would stay new and chaotic forever but that isnt going to happen.

the progressive middle class entrenching itself in the position of identifier and fixer of problems, ala the priesthood of old, is part of that process.

genius part of it is you cant seperate church and state if your an atheist, truly the master stroke that leaves all the rhetoric 2 steps behind.

hence, the understandable, but ultimately futile, attempt by the christians to try and point out the relgious nature of this new atheism

Well said. Once the institution is firmly establish and comfortable. Defense of the institution is the highest priority.

Religions, theological, NGO, corporate, and governmental are all excellent examples.

[Doc]

i think the main point I was getting at is much is made of various undefinable spirits - american or australian or whatever.

while their is definately some truths to some of it, most of that kind of talk is just retrospectively coming up with silly philosophies that describe the crude appearances of things at that stage in the game.

most of what we had in the new world was lack of ruthlessly defined classes - their wasnt centuries or millenia of ossification on the order of things and nobodies could upset the status quo fluidly.

this is the lands of oppurtunities, of entrepeneurship, of good luck, of frontier spirit blah blah blah.

those ossifications are now starting to set in , which is frustrating to some people who think it would stay new and chaotic forever but that isnt going to happen.

the progressive middle class entrenching itself in the position of identifier and fixer of problems, ala the priesthood of old, is part of that process.

genius part of it is you cant seperate church and state if your an atheist, truly the master stroke that leaves all the rhetoric 2 steps behind.

hence, the understandable, but ultimately futile, attempt by the christians to try and point out the relgious nature of this new atheism

Talking about "religion"... Now online to read for free:


https://www.academia.edu/21464682/The_T ... ric_Hoffer

b] THE TRUE BELIEVER
_____
Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements[/b]

ERIC HOFFER

This book deals with some peculiarities common to all mass movements, be they religious movements, social revolutions or nationalist movements. It does not maintain that all movement share identical, but that they share certain essential characteristics which give them a family likeness.

All mass movements generate in their adherents a readiness to die and a proclivity for united action; all of them,irrespective of the doctrine they preach and the program they project, breed fanaticism, enthusiasm, fervent hope, hatred and intolerance; all of them are capable of releasing a powerfulow of activity in certain departments of life; all of them demand blind faith and single hearted allegiance.

All movements, however different in doctrine and aspiration,draw their early adherents from the same types of humanity;they all appeal to the same types of mind.

Though there are obvious differences between the fanatical Christian, the fanatical Mohammedan, the fanatical nationalist,the fanatical Communist and the fanatical Nazi, it is yet true that the fanaticism which animates them may be viewed and treated as one. The same is true of the force which drives them on to expansion and world dominion. There is a certain uniformity in all types of dedication, of faith, of pursuit of power, of unity and of self-sacrifice. There are vast differences in the contents of holy causes and doctrines, but a certain uniformity in the factors which make them effective. He who,like Pascal, finds precise reasons for the effectiveness of Christian doctrine has also found the reasons for the effectiveness of Communist, Nazi and nationalist doctrine.However different the holy causes people die for, they perhaps die basically for the same thing.

This book concerns itself chief with the active revivalist phase of mass movements. This phase is dominated by the true believer—the man of fanatical faith who is ready to sacrifice his life for a holy cause—and an attempt is made to trace his genesis and outline his nature. As an aid in this effort, use is made of a working hypothesis. Starting out from the fact that the frustrated
1
predominate among the early adherents of all mass movements and that they usually join of their own accord, it is assumed: 1) that frustration of itself, without any proselytizing prompting from the outside, can generate most of the peculiar characteristics of the true believer; 2) that an effective technique of conversion consists basically in the inculcation and fixation of proclivities and responses indigenous to the frustrated mind.To test the validity of these assumptions, it was necessary to inquire into the ills that afflict the frustrated, how they react against them, the degree to which these reactions correspond to the responses of the true believer, and, finally, the manner in which these reactions can facilitate the rise and spread of amass movement. It was also necessary to examine the practices of contemporary movements, where successful techniques of conversion had been perfected and applied, in order to discover whether they corroborate the view that a proselytizing mass movement deliberately fosters in its adherents a frustrated state of mind, and that it automatically advances its interest when it seconds the propensities of the frustrated.It is necessary for most of us these days to have some insight into the motives and responses of the true believer. For though ours is a godless age, it is the very opposite of irreligious. The true believer is everywhere on the march, and both by converting and antagonizing he is shaping the world in his own image. And whether we are to line up with him or against him,it is well that we should know all we can concerning his nature and potentialities.

It is perhaps not superfluous to add a word of caution. When we speak of the family likeness of mass movements, we use the word “family” in a taxonomical sense. The tomato and the nightshade are of the same family, the Solanaceae. Though the one is nutritious and the other poisonous, they have many morphological, anatomical and physiological traits in common so that even the non-botanist senses a family likeness. The assumption that mass movements have many traits in common does not imply that all movements are equally beneficent or poisonous. The book passes no judgments, and expresses no preferences. It merely tries to explain; and the explanations—all of them theories—are in the nature of suggestions and arguments even when they are stated in what seems a categorical tone. I can do no better than quote Montaigne: “All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed.”

[noddy]

i think the main point I was getting at is much is made of various undefinable spirits - american or australian or whatever.

while their is definately some truths to some of it, most of that kind of talk is just retrospectively coming up with silly philosophies that describe the crude appearances of things at that stage in the game.

most of what we had in the new world was lack of ruthlessly defined classes - their wasnt centuries or millenia of ossification on the order of things and nobodies could upset the status quo fluidly.

this is the lands of oppurtunities, of entrepeneurship, of good luck, of frontier spirit blah blah blah.

those ossifications are now starting to set in , which is frustrating to some people who think it would stay new and chaotic forever but that isnt going to happen.

the progressive middle class entrenching itself in the position of identifier and fixer of problems, ala the priesthood of old, is part of that process.

genius part of it is you cant seperate church and state if your an atheist, truly the master stroke that leaves all the rhetoric 2 steps behind.

hence, the understandable, but ultimately futile, attempt by the christians to try and point out the relgious nature of this new atheism

I see the argument but I don't know.

It presupposes too much continuity when there is always a mad rush for success to burn itself out.

The successful are excellent immolators.

its an unfocused rant but the heart of it I do believe is true - a continuity has formed and we have proper , entrenched classes with ever decreasing mobility between them.

the percentage of kids at uni who had parents at uni , the percentage of jobs in government which require uni, all these things are locking into place in a way that was much harder to see (in my country at least) 20 years or more earlier.

the older australia had far more side stepping such requirements due to industry experience or other such factors , those folks are the ones getting crushed by their lack of facility with dealing with the wokelings.

[noddy]

everytime i get involved in a race discussion in relation to america, I always end up confused.

we have *those* professional victim types here but they mostly dont get the traction amongst the general public.

oh, it's coming-- see that article Typhoon posted above-- we are exporting this stuff like crazy and its most effecting the English speaking world (for obvious reasons).

it will only stick noddy if some of your institutions are foolish enough to make being an oppressed victim group member lucrative.

If the professional victims starve, that's a good thing.

yeh, for now it still is profitable to be a squeaky wheel in public, but not so much in private.

what gets you glorified on the social media doesnt always play out so well behind closed doors with actual people.

[Simple Minded]

yeh, for now it still is profitable to be a squeaky wheel in public, but not so much in private.

what gets you glorified on the social media doesnt always play out so well behind closed doors with actual people.

We need modified "tenure" programs for political and educational professionals. They need to spend more time behind closed doors working with actual people.

For every six months Mr. PhD spends teaching at a university (or Ms. MS spends teaching at a public school) they have to spend 6 months performing manual blue collar labor at the going rate. Better yet would be a quarter system. 3 months teaching, 3 months on the assembly line, 3 months teaching, 3 months in the coal mine, 3 months teaching, 3 months pumping septic tanks, etc.

For the politicians, it would be slightly different. Before you can author legislation for say the coal industry, you must spend 5 years working in the industry in various capacities. Same for other industries, medicine, infrastructure, law enforcement, gun control, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

yeh, for now it still is profitable to be a squeaky wheel in public, but not so much in private.

what gets you glorified on the social media doesnt always play out so well behind closed doors with actual people.

We need modified "tenure" programs for political and educational professionals. They need to spend more time behind closed doors working with actual people.

For every six months Mr. PhD spends teaching at a university (or Ms. MS spends teaching at a public school) they have to spend 6 months performing manual blue collar labor at the going rate. Better yet would be a quarter system. 3 months teaching, 3 months on the assembly line, 3 months teaching, 3 months in the coal mine, 3 months teaching, 3 months pumping septic tanks, etc.

For the politicians, it would be slightly different. Before you can author legislation for say the coal industry, you must spend 5 years working in the industry in various capacities. Same for other industries, medicine, infrastructure, law enforcement, gun control, pharmaceuticals, etc.

Chairman Mao, is that you?

[noddy]

he does have a good point tho.

if you beat the chilluns repeatadly , they grow immune to the beatings, and this takes alot of the fear out of life.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

what can you even say to those folks ?

A trillion dollar question.

See above post. I'll settle for a nice steak dinner and a few beers with you and noddy!"

Such generosity in paying for it too!

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

he does have a good point tho.

if you beat the chilluns repeatadly , they grow immune to the beatings, and this takes alot of the fear out of life.

Perhaps; then again academics aren't children, despite how hard they pretend to be.

[noddy]

if i remember the old rules correctly it doesnt [matter] who gets the beating or why, everyone deserves it for something.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

if i remember the old rules correctly it doesnt who gets the beating or why, everyone deserves it for something.

This is all very timely as I was just reading about the left-liberal case for bringing back canings and executions in lieu of prisons.

[noddy]

if i remember the old rules correctly it doesnt who gets the beating or why, everyone deserves it for something.

This is all very timely as I was just reading about the left-liberal case for bringing back canings and executions in lieu of prisons.

works for singapore, socialist paradise, everyone is too scared not to be sensible.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

its an unfocused rant but the heart of it I do believe is true - a continuity has formed and we have proper , entrenched classes with ever decreasing mobility between them.

the percentage of kids at uni who had parents at uni , the percentage of jobs in government which require uni, all these things are locking into place in a way that was much harder to see (in my country at least) 20 years or more earlier.

the older australia had far more side stepping such requirements due to industry experience or other such factors , those folks are the ones getting crushed by their lack of facility with dealing with the wokelings.

There is certainly less sidestepping. But by all accounts I've seen mobility is what it has always been.

The schools being the job-sorters for the majority of industries is a complete disaster. But something tied up with our civil rights regime.

And something very new-left wing.

All those kids who romanticized the Castro regime and the Soviets for producing doctors everywhere have given it to us good and hard.

[noddy]

to be fair - alot of it comes from reacting to nepotism/jobs for the mates and the requirement for "qualified people"

which also ties into accusations of mediocre white men giving eachother jobs, etc.

which then leads to left wing gatekeeping.

round and round in circles.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I agree, in some light it's a totally fair bit of the argument.

========================

Of course there is this from "Is Capitalism Moral?" by Andre Comte-Sponville where he relays a story about a lecture in the department of economics at the University of Burgundy:

Interrogated about the lecture she had attended, a student was incapable of remembering what was the model of free competition; the professor decided to start from scratch with a simple example. "You are a small stockbreeder in a poor region where you have a hard time making ends meet. So do your neighbors. However, one of them starts growing potatoes and, six months later, he drives an expensive car, remodels his house and builds a swimming pool. What do you do ? "

When everyone would expect her to answer "Me too , I grow potatoes," the professor received an astonishing, "I have a fit."

"But why?"

"It is always like that: some get too much and others not enough."

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The DIfferene Between Yams and Sweet Potatoes Is Structural Racism

[noddy]

I agree, in some light it's a totally fair bit of the argument.

========================

Of course there is this from "Is Capitalism Moral?" by Andre Comte-Sponville where he relays a story about a lecture in the department of economics at the University of Burgundy:

Interrogated about the lecture she had attended, a student was incapable of remembering what was the model of free competition; the professor decided to start from scratch with a simple example. "You are a small stockbreeder in a poor region where you have a hard time making ends meet. So do your neighbors. However, one of them starts growing potatoes and, six months later, he drives an expensive car, remodels his house and builds a swimming pool. What do you do ? "

When everyone would expect her to answer "Me too , I grow potatoes," the professor received an astonishing, "I have a fit."

"But why?"

"It is always like that: some get too much and others not enough."

most folk arent that fussed about ideology, they want stability.

their is something we lost moving from the village "everyone has a place and is in their place" when we moved to modernity.

not wishing for it to return myself, but i can see many do want it and the benefits it did have for the kind of person who just wants a stable job and doesnt really care what the job is

I mean, I saw the whole glorification of warrior boys through another lens when I lived in the pacific for a bit - in reality those boys had to spend their lives on border control, crawling through mud and insects and generally on the outter of things

the macho rhetoric just keeps em keen to go back to it , and everyone waves em off and goes back to being comfy and chill.

the grumpy chick who didnt get on with the others, she gets to prepare the new garden bed by herself.

nobody actually believes in capitalism, like nobody actually believes in multiculturism.

they are competitive theories, about fitness of the population as a whole, good for other people, but nobody actually wants to spend their lives fighting.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I wasn't thinking about the book or economics but that particular story revealing a very typical reaction.