France

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Typhoon
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Re: France

Post by Typhoon »

Alexis would probably be in the best position to comment on how much of this is reality and how much of this is the overactive imagination of an American abroad.
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Endovelico
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Re: France

Post by Endovelico »

French 'Rafale' planes for India...

The French version:
L’Inde commande 36 Rafale à la France
AFP 10 avril 2015 à 19:06 (Mis à jour : 10 avril 2015 à 20:40)

Au terme d'un long suspense, la première visite du Premier ministre indien Narendra Modi vendredi à Paris s'est soldée par un accord sans précédent sur la vente de 36 avions de combat.

Le Premier ministre indien, Narendra Modi, a annoncé vendredi lors d’une visite officielle à Paris que son pays allait acheter 36 avions de combat Rafale à la France. «J’ai demandé au président (François) Hollande de nous fournir 36 Rafale, clé en main», a-t-il déclaré lors d’un point de presse avec le chef de l’Etat français. «Les termes et conditions doivent (maintenant) être négociés et nos services vont discuter de ces questions en profondeur afin de faire avancer les négociations», a-t-il ajouté.Sur le même sujet

Le contrat pourrait s’élever à près de 4 milliards d’euros, le prix d’un Rafale à l’export étant estimé à 110 millions d’euros sans les armements. Le gouvernement indien souhaite acquérir «dès que possible» ces 36 Rafale en raison d’un «besoin opérationnel crucial» des forces aériennes indiennes, a-t-il souligné dans une déclaration commune franco-indienne.

Outre cette commande «sur étagère», d’appareils fabriqués en France, Paris et New Delhi se sont «engagés» à poursuivre leurs négociations pour la construction d’appareils en Inde, dans le cadre d’un transfert de technologie, a-t-on précisé au ministère français de la Défense.

Depuis 2012, la France négocie la vente de 126 Rafale à l’Inde, dont 108 seraient fabriqués sur des chaînes de montage indiennes. Ce contrat butait toutefois sur le coût total des appareils, plus élevé que prévu en raison de la nécessité de constituer une chaîne d’assemblage et de sous-traitants en Inde ainsi que de former des équipes sur place.

Le nombre d’appareils en négociation dans le cadre de ce contrat va «probablement évoluer» après l’annonce d’un achat d’avions clé en main, selon le ministère de la défense Narendra Modi, arrivé au pouvoir en 2014, a voulu sortir de cette impasse en commandant directement des appareils en France afin de moderniser au plus vite l’armée de l’air indienne (IAF), équipée en partie d’antiques Mig-21 et 27 russes.

http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/201 ... di_1238752
The real thing:
India Scraps Major Arms Purchase with France, Inks Major Deal with Russia
India's Congress Party has canceled most of its order of 126 French Rafales and opted for a large order of Russian Sukhois

India has essentially annulled it gigantic arms contract with France for the purchase and combined construction of 126 Rafale fighter planes; the Indian Prime Minister agreed to buy only 36 of them during his visit to Paris last week, a responsible government source stated. Instead, India will buy 127 fifth generation Russian fighter jets.

It is part of the direct fall-out from the socialist French governments anti-Russian policy, aligned with Washington. Obedient to the US, the Le Drian/Hollande tandem chose not to turn over the Mistral ships to Russia. This about-face on the part of India constitutes a major triumph for Vladimir Putin. Moscow’s revenge against France with will cost Paris 20 billion euros.

India essentially annuls its order

The Defense Minister Manohar Perrikar indicated that if India were inclined toward the purchase of any additional Rafales, this, too, would be through government to government accords. In January 2012, India chose the Rafales in one of its most important arms purchases in decades, for a cost evaluated at 20 billion dollars, but the accord was set aside following M. Modi’s coming into office.

“One car can’t go on two highways at the same time. The other route had numerous problems” said Mr Parrikar, alluding to the former Rafale agreement with France, which had been signed by the former government led by the Indian National Congress Party.

But the minister did welcome the purchase of 36 Rafales as a “breath of fresh air” for the Indian Air force. He did not specify the number of additional Rafales to be acquired after the first ones have been directly delivered from France in two years. But buying up to 126 fighter jets would be a financially "steep hill to climb” he concluded.

Consequences connected to the delivery of the Mistral

The socialist government is paying for its alignment with American diplomacy on the delivery of the Mistral. India, now governed by Hindu Nationalists, has, in effect engaged in a movement of conciliation with China, leaning toward Russia, and disappointing American expectations about any anti-Russian, anti-China axis.

In this new viewpoint ordering French Rafales is going to depend on regular delivery of parts made in France, and also on periodic upgrades that the planes will need, in armament and navigation gear and the like. But given the refusal of France to turn over the Mistral to Russia, India fears finding itself up against US pressure on France to limit such deliveries, or to deliver parts not at front-line level. In sum, the faith and credit in France as arms supplier is largely diminished, and the Indian government has no desire to risk its strategic independence. The order, a marginal one, of 36 units is not likely to endanger Indian aviation -- which will be supplied by another source.

Partnership of the Hindu Nationalists with Russia

If India evokes “budgetary difficulties’ to wrap up a contract estimated at 20 billion with France, a glance at the discussion with Russia in the arena of armaments permits one to see where the evidence leads.

The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi met Vladimir Putin in December when the hot issue was the non-delivery of the Mistral on grounds of the conflict in Ukraine. The head of the government of India, determined to enter the Shanghai Cooperation Organization alongside China, Russia, and Iran, and to free Eurasia from US tutelage, told the Russian president he wished to “keep Russia as primary partner in defense materiel.”

The Indian government therefore entered in negotiations to acquire the fifth generation Russian fighter jet, which should be emerging from the factories in 2016. The contract envisioned giving India 127 Russian fighters, of which one knows the Russian industry produces the best in the world. Russia has undertaken to accelerate production in order to deliver the first fighters in 36 months.

Cost? 25 billion Euros. I.e. five billion more than the contract negotiated with France. In sum, the budgetary excuses are a diplomatic means of turning to the oldest and most important military partner of India: Russia.

The two countries have a long history or cooperation in this domain andthey have the intent to resolutely emancipate Eurasia from American domination, an intent that prevails in the heart of the new Indian government, and which has accelerated the turnabout.

Chessboard Check to the Le Drian/Hollande tandem

This check of the antirussian policies asked for by Le Drian and Holland is not done yet with its consequences for the French arms industry. Le Drian, future candidate in the regional elections of 2015 and current Defense Minister, will do anything to avoid addressing the Mistral question, which has struck a decisive blow to the the shipyards of Saint-Nazaire.

An Atlantist, Le Drian has considerably damaged the interests of Brittany as well as of France, since the cost of the non-delivery of the Mistral has set France back at least 20 billion euros, five times the cost of a Mistral.

The impact of the Russian counter-attack on France is considerable, both for the mid-term and the long term.

Meanwhile, the regime’s press, anxious to assuage the government, prefers to congratulate itself for some days now over the deal with 36 Rafales to India, a matter of not calling to mind the disastrous effects of a foreign policy firmly aligned with Washington.

http://russia-insider.com/en/washington ... -high/5690
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Typhoon
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Re: France

Post by Typhoon »

Reality, as opposed to Russian agitprop fantasy:

India's Plans Unclear After Rafale Decision
NEW DELHI — Following India's sudden decision to buy 36 Rafales from France straight off the production line last week, the next steps in New Delhi's plan to eventually outfit its Air Force with 126 of the Dassault jets remain unclear.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Alexis
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Re: France

Post by Alexis »

Endovelico wrote:The real thing:
India Scraps Major Arms Purchase with France, Inks Major Deal with Russia
India's Congress Party has canceled most of its order of 126 French Rafales and opted for a large order of Russian Sukhois
:lol: That "Russian Insider" site is quite funny. :)

It has translated an article by a regionalist paper with small circulation. Analysis provided by this paper is as dependable as one might surmise :mrgreen:

- First, this order for 36 Rafale is an initial batch. Most probably to be followed by more.
Defence minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday also made it clear that if India goes in for additional French Rafale fighters, after the outright purchase of 36 jets decided during the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris last Friday, it will also be through government-to-government deals.
(...)
But the minister did not specify how many additional Rafales would be acquired after the first 36 Rafales are inducted directly from France, which itself is likely to take well over two years. But the number now will certainly not be as much as 126 fighters, with Parrikar holding it would "financially be a very steep slope to climb".
- Second, no contract has been inked for purchase by India of 127, nor any other number of future "5th generation" Russian fighters. Neither recently, nor before.

- Third, as it happens, Indians are not satisfied with the FGFA program for development of T-50 5th generation aircraft jointly with Russia. Not satisfied at all... delays, concerns about performance, concerns about dependability, smaller workshare for India than had initially been agreed to.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has expressed concerns to Russia over technical problems and delays plaguing the USD10.5 billion Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme (...) inadequacy of its AL-41F1 engines, its stealth features and its weapons carriage system.
(...) Additional IAF concerns include the overall development cost of the aircraft, its maintainability and safety features, the sources said.
As a result, in recent months the IAF has significantly reduced the number of FGFA aircraft it plans to acquire from around 220 to 130-145.
(...) The IAF is also annoyed over Russian reluctance to share design information on the T-50 PAK-FA -officially designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF) by India - despite New Delhi being an equal financial partner in its development costs.
(...) Another cause for friction between the two sides is the reduced work share of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's lead development agency in the FGFA joint venture. The amount has gone from around 25% that was negotiated in 2013 to around 13% in recent months.
- Fourth, no T-50 / FGFA "should be emerging from the factories in 2016". At least no operational one - initial production is one thing, full operational stage is another. In general, that program is in serious trouble.
Just a short time ago, Russia planned to have 52 advanced T-50 stealth fighters by the end of the decade. At least, that was the plan.
Now the T-50 program appears to be in serious trouble, and Russia may cut back the fighters to a fraction of the planned strength.
The first sign something was very wrong appeared last month. On March 24. Yuri Borisov, Russia’s deputy defense minister for armaments, told the Kommersant newspaper that the military is drastically cutting its number of T-50s. Instead of 52 stealth fighters, Russia will build merely 12 of them.
(...)
India and Russia should have continued negotiations for the development contract. But now New Delhi is incommunicado with Moscow. The Russian defense ministry wanted meetings with their Indian counterparts between February and March. India didn’t respond.
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Endovelico
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Re: France

Post by Endovelico »

Alexis,
My point was that there are always several sides to the same story. You read the western press and you get one side, you read the Russian press and you have another. You may not know which is closer to the truth, but you are better off by having doubts... And we westerners have for far too long been happy with our own garbage... Time to be more attentive...
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Doc
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Re: France

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:Alexis,
My point was that there are always several sides to the same story. You read the western press and you get one side, you read the Russian press and you have another. You may not know which is closer to the truth, but you are better off by having doubts... And we westerners have for far too long been happy with our own garbage... Time to be more attentive...
In your example you read the western press you get news spoon fed so you have to look at more than one source. You look at the Putin press and you get one source as there is only one source
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Alexis
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Re: France

Post by Alexis »

Endovelico wrote:Alexis,
My point was that there are always several sides to the same story. You read the western press and you get one side, you read the Russian press and you have another. You may not know which is closer to the truth, but you are better off by having doubts... And we westerners have for far too long been happy with our own garbage... Time to be more attentive...
I agree, and the best way to protect against this propaganda-rich environment is in my opinion to check what different sources have to say on any given topic. Following what the Russian media have to say is no protection, because that source is no less propaganda-prone than pro-Western ones. As far as sources like sputniknews are concerned, I would say it's actually just as bad as the worst of Western sources - RFERL and such.

Only (partial) protections: triangulate between sources with different hidden agendas + contextualize
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: France

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.


In France, there’s no hatred for any group equivalent to that of Jew hatred

France’s Prime Minister Manuel Valls has announced an action plan that will make the battle against hatred into “a great national cause,” a plan that will include awareness programs and enhanced punishment for online hate speech, with stiffer prison sentences for hatred-based crimes. The superficially admirable plan springs from honest outrage on Valls’ part — but outrage that has undergone a disquieting sea change since it was first expressed.

After the Charlie Hebdo and kosher-supermarket massacres in January, you may recall, Valls delivered a passionate, widely circulated speech on anti-Semitism in France, declaring the problem of Jewish flight so serious the French Republic must be judged a failure if Jews left en masse. Then, Valls pulled no punches regarding the source of the crisis: “We are at war with terrorism, jihadism and Islamist radicalism.”

That January cri du coeur offered truths that were the gift of spontaneity. With time for second thoughts (and who knows what political pressure), the message Valls now delivers is quite different. Last week the prime minister told suburban high school students: “Racism, anti-Semitism, hatred of Muslims, of foreigners and homophobia are increasing in an unbearable manner in our country.” He added, “French Jews should no longer be afraid of being Jewish and French Muslims should no longer be ashamed of being Muslims.

Irwin Cotler: We are witnessing a new, sophisticated, virulent, and even lethal anti-Semitism
Barbara Kay: The Jewish exodus from France
Valls’ capitulation to France’s pre-Hebdo default of moral relativism is sad to behold. Valls’ outrage now sees anti-Semitism not as a singular problem, rather as only one of multiple hatreds, and no more distressing than hatred of foreigners (who?), gays and — of course — Muslims.

The truth, which Valls understood very well in January, is that there is no hatred for any group in France equivalent to that of Jew hatred, routinely expressed in virulent hate speech, vandalism, beatings and murder. Foreigners, gays and Muslims are not fleeing France. The institutions of foreigners, gays and Muslims are not being guarded around the clock. Fifty-five per cent of hate-driven acts are not happening to foreigners, gays and Muslims, but to Jews (1% of the population).

Social and employment-related discrimination are problems for French Muslims, but discrimination is not hatred, and has been historically overcome by many immigrant communities everywhere on the road to integration. Most disturbingly, Valls’ likening of actual Jewish victimhood and legitimate collective Jewish fear of Islamist terrorism to some Muslims’ feelings of shame regarding Islamist terrorism is an offensively false analogy.

Seven thousand Jews left France in 2014. France is reaping what she sowed
The only true hate crisis in France is anti-Semitism. In November, 2014, a French poll revealed disturbing levels of anti-Semitism amongst French Muslims, as well as “tolerance for violence targeting Jews among a rather significant percent of the population.” According to Simone Rodan-Benzaquen, Paris-based head of the American Jewish Committee, most Muslims are anti-Semitic, a sentiment that rises in tandem with religious orthodoxy, but which crosses all lines of age, socio-economic status, levels of education and districts. In February, Rodan-Benzaquen confessed herself frankly pessimistic regarding Muslim Judeophobia in France: “It is possible that it is too late,” meaning too late for France to ensure Jewish safety.

Seven thousand Jews left France in 2014. France is reaping what she sowed. For many years, pro-Arab French politicians and media willfully misread the normative anti-Semitism of all Arab societies as a by-product of the Middle East conflict. Intent on relativizing what has always been a one-way hatred, French elites demoted Jews from their appropriate status of French nationals, as Ashkenazi Jews have been for more than 200 years, into a “community of immigration,” falsely accusing them of “communautarisme” (disloyalty to French republicanism), and shamelessly mischaracterizing Muslim anti-Semitism as a problem of “the two communities,” both in need of “inter-religious dialogue.”

Post-Second World War anti-Semitism has been a serious problem in France since the 1980s, when it was imported from North Africa, where it was endemic. Yet it was, until a few years ago, actually a government policy, in collaboration with France’s pusillanimous media, to ignore hundreds of acts of anti-Semitism so as not to “throw oil on the fire” of Muslim rage.

Valls’ nuanced reframing tells us France is not prepared to tackle the root cause of its only existential hate crisis. So French Jews can choose: a continuing siege existence in a nation whose fear of its alienated Muslims trumps solidarity with its integrated Jews; or a new home in Israel, under external siege to be sure, but a nation where Jewish lives are privileged over political correctness.

French Jews at least have a choice. The rulers who created the conditions that are forcing the choice don’t. They’re stuck in France. Who will be better off in the end?

.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: France

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


The new Jewish exodus :
Canada seen as safe haven for French Jews in wake of attacks


The new Jewish exodus: Canada seen as safe haven for French Jews in wake of anti-Semitic attacks

Graeme Hamilton | April 24, 2015 | Last Updated: Apr 24 1:08 PM ET
More from Graeme Hamilton | @grayhamilton
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MONTREAL — When a gunman stormed into a kosher supermarket in Paris, seizing hostages and killing four people, Julien Catan felt tremors all the way to Montreal. A Paris native, he had walked the streets around the Hyper-Cacher market thousands of times. His fiancée’s mother had been shopping there 20 minutes before it was attacked.

“What happened in January was a real shock, like never before,” Catan said in an interview. “I think the impact it had is very profound, and I think the Jewish community has taken a real hit.”

The murderous targeting of shoppers buying groceries before the Sabbath, two days after an attack on the journalists of Charlie Hebdo, came amid a surge in anti-Semitism that has Jews questioning how long they can remain in France. More than ever, Canada is seen as a safe haven, and leaders of Montreal’s Jewish community are only too happy to extend a welcoming hand.

It was love that brought Catan, 28, to Montreal last year when he joined his fiancée, who had moved from France five years ago to pursue her studies. But the rise of anti-Semitic hatred back home makes the Jewish couple reluctant to return as they contemplate raising a family. Among their circle of Jewish friends in France, many are planning to leave. “It was perhaps the straw that broke the camel’s back,” Catan said of the January attacks. “It will lead people who were thinking of leaving to take action.”


AP Photo/Christophe Ena
AP Photo/Christophe EnaSoldiers patrol a street in Paris, Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2015.
Like Catan, Adam Scheier was shaken by news of the January terror attacks in Paris. The senior rabbi at Montreal’s Congregation Shaar Hashomayim was at an event in Nashville, and instead of returning home, he flew immediately to Paris as an expression of solidarity. “I found fear,” he said in an interview. “Parents were telling me how terrified they were to send their children to school.”

Graham Hughes for National Post
Graham Hughes for National Post Rabbi Adam Scheier.
For Scheier, the sight of heavily armed soldiers guarding Jewish schools clashed with the safety felt by North America’s Jewish communities. Since his return, he has been pushing to make that North American safety available to French Jews. “I think Quebec should proactively be looking to welcome Jews from France who are looking to leave,” he said.

“This is a Jewish community that has western liberal values that are consistent with our Canadian values. This is a Jewish community that is filled with professionals, people of achievement in law, in business, medicine, sciences and the arts. This is a vibrant, dynamic community that could make a contribution to our country, and this is a community that speaks French, which is something that is very attractive for the Quebec government.”

Montreal Jewish organizations have recently created a task force in response to a steep increase in requests for information from French Jews interested in moving to Canada. Monique Lapointe, manager of immigration services for the social services agency Ometz, said her organization alone received 70 such requests in the three months since the January attacks, double what it would normally receive in a year. The task force is looking at how the community can smooth immigration from France, starting by helping potential immigrants navigate the bureaucracy and letting them know what services are available once they arrive.

Related
Barbara Kay: In France , there’s no hatred for any group equivalent to that of Jew hatred
Leonid Bershidsky: Controversies in a number of European countries make it seem as though WWII never ended
Irwin Cotler: We are witnessing a new, sophisticated, virulent, and even lethal anti-Semitism
Maajid Nawaz: British campuses have been infiltrated by theocratic fantasists. I should know — I was one
Anti-Semitism in France

Every year, the non-profit Jewish Community Protection Service publishes a report on anti-Semitism in France, using information provided by the French Ministry of the Interior. The report for 2014 found that the number of anti-Semitic acts had more than doubled from the previous year, rising to 851. Here is a sampling of reported incidents, as contained in the report.

Friday, Jan. 10, 2014 – Paris

A Jewish 14-year-old middle-school student was bullied, called “dirty Jew,” beaten up by four boys in her school. The teenager had been violently attacked the previous week: she was chased down the hallway and cornered in the trash can area, where she was attacked. She was wounded in her wrist and thumb, and had to wear orthotics.

Thursday, March 20, 2014 – Paris

A 59-year-old teacher wearing a kippa and tzitzit (fringes) was attacked by three individuals who screamed “Dirty Jew, death to the Jews, we’re gonna f— your race.” He was hit multiple times in the face. The attackers ripped his shirt and drew a swastika with a black marker on his torso. An ambulance brought the victim to the hospital where he spent the night. He was diagnosed with bruises and a fractured nose and deemed unfit to work for nine days.

Thursday, March 27, 2014 – Paris

A school bus from a Jewish school, carrying some 30 children, was targeted by a group of youngsters who ostensibly waited for the bus before throwing stones at it. A window was broken and the children suffered deep shock. There were no casualties.

Saturday, May 24, 2014 – Creteil

Two brothers, aged 18 and 21, wearing kippas and tzitzit were violently attacked on their way to synagogue. Two 20-something individuals on a bike stopped behind them and hit them in the back with brass knuckles. They hit them violently on the face. The two attacked men fight back. After a few minutes, both attackers climbed back on their bike and pedaled away. A man driving his car witnessed the attack and called the fire department. The men were taken to the hospital. The older brother needed three stitches on the head and had an orbital floor fracture.

Saturday, July 12, 2014 – Paris

A group of demonstrators stood by a synagogue and shouted anti-Semitic slogans: “Death to the Jews! Cut the Jews’ throats! Israel is an assassin, and France its accomplice!” The rabbi had trouble getting inside the building. The slogans were shouted in Arabic and French. A worshiper arriving at this time was molested. The police arrived. The demonstrators again attempted to storm inside the synagogue, but were pushed back by the police. An Israeli flag stained with red — a symbol of blood — was burnt. There was no damage inflicted on the building and no worshiper was hurt.

Saturday, July 12, 2014 – Aulnay-sous-Bois

Three Molotov cocktails were thrown at a synagogue at night. The door and part of the façade were scorched. A complaint was filed.

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 – Paris

Following an anti-Israel rally . . . some 50 demonstrators went to the Marais neighborhood. The manager of a kosher restaurant barely had time to lower the curtain even as customers remained inside. Demonstrators kicked and punched the iron grid. Death threats and anti-Semitic slurs were heard, such as “Bunch of dirty Jews, we’re gonna kill you,” and “Death to the Jews.” The police intervened and arrested them.

Monday, Dec. 1, 2014 – Creteil

Three masked men forced their way into the apartment of a Jewish family; they sequestrated one of the sons and his girlfriend for an hour. The attackers demanded money, ATM cards, and jewels and said: “You Jews, you are rich. You’re gonna tell us where the money is.” The young man was tied up, the young woman was raped, and the apartment was burglarized. The three attackers were arrested and placed in custody.

National Post

Scheier said he is in contact with officials of the provincial and federal governments about the plight of French Jews, and though he declined to go into detail, he called the government response encouraging. “We’ll certainly look to the government to offer assistance,” he said.

But even though France’s Jews represent an attractive pool of potential immigrants for Quebec, the issue is delicate. They are not refugees, and the official line from the Jewish community is that asking the government to speed an immigration process that typically takes two years has been ruled out. “If you do that, it’s a double-edged sword,” Lapointe said. “It’s not a good thing.”

Whatever hurdles immigrants have to overcome, Frederic Saadoun says it is worth the trouble. He moved from Paris to Montreal with his wife and young children 10 years ago, as anti-Semitism began to rise in France. There were assaults on Jewish children, anti-Semitic graffiti near Jewish schools and advice from a rabbi not to wear Jewish symbols in public. “We preferred leaving before things got worse,” Saadoun, 46, said in an interview.

At the time, fellow Jews in France criticized him for leaving, but now the same people tell him he did the right thing. “There are not a lot of countries where you die because you are Jewish, but it happens in France,” he said citing the Hyper-Cacher attack and the 2012 assault on a Jewish school in Toulouse by an Islamist terrorist who murdered three children and a rabbi.

“There is a physical threat, but what is even more terrible — because in the end, there is little chance of dying — is to be assaulted in daily life,” he said. “My father, who lives in southern France, faces verbal and physical abuse when he leaves synagogue. That sort of thing happens every day.”

He said his son and daughter, 17 and 15, are now perfectly at ease displaying their Jewish identities in public. It is when they return to France to visit family that he has to warn them.

“I tell them to be careful. In the métro, don’t show your Star of David. Don’t display any distinctive symbol showing you are Jewish. They no longer understand, because here they have no problem, they feel safe,” he said.

“Canada is peaceful and they do not at all feel threatened as Jews. We have to teach them when they go to France how to behave as threatened Jews.”

To some it may seem paranoid, but the numbers do not lie. The latest annual report on anti-Semitism in France, compiled by the Jewish Community Security Service in conjunction with France’s Interior Ministry, found that anti-Semitic acts more than doubled in 2014, rising to 851 compare with 423 in 2013. Of the total, 241 were classified as violent acts while 610 were threats. While France’s roughly 500,000 Jews represent less than 1% of the population, they were the targets of 51% of all racist acts committed in 2014, the report said.

“Today, anti-Semitic threats in France include persistent bias, sectarian stereotypes, deep hatred, but especially anti-Semitic jihadist terror,” the report said. “Men and young children are killed for the sole reason that they are Jewish.”

French authorities are trying to counter the rise in hatred. Last week, Prime Minister Manuel Valls announced a 100-million euros ($131-million) program to combat “racism and anti-Semitism” over the next three years. Proposed changes would provide for stiffer penalties for hate speech.

Jewish leaders welcome the effort but are pessimistic about the prospect of success.

Figures published in December showed that 7,000 French Jews left for Israel in 2014, more than double the number the number in 2013. Serge Benhaim, president of a Paris synagogue that came under attack last summer by participants in an anti-Israel march, estimated that another 3,000-5,000 left for other destinations.

“We are trying everything to keep people here, but we have a lot of difficulty because there are troubling signals in the short and long term,” he said. “We have a school that cannot manage to rent a space because people do not want a Jewish school in the building, because it becomes a target for terrorists. People are nice, they understand, but in reality there are problems. We are not very welcome.

“Nobody is saying they want to put us in trains again. It’s not that. But we pose a problem. We pose a problem currently.”

Richard Prasquier, former president of France’s main Jewish organization, CRIF, said France is not an anti-Semitic country. But it does not know how to handle an anti-Semitic wave originating from its growing Muslim population. He gave the example of the comedian Dieudonné, whose popularity only grows the more he is taken to task for his anti-Semitism.

“We are democrats, but we know that democracy today does not have the proper tools to confront the rise of Islamist radicals and anti-Semitism,” Prasquier said. “We have trouble combating it.”

That difficulty is about to cost him regular visits with his daughter and granddaughters. Béatrice Prasquier, 35, said she and her husband are planning to move with their two small daughters from Paris to Montreal. France’s stagnant economy was the primary motivation, but the rise in anti-Semitism also played a part. She said in an interview that practically all her Jewish friends are talking about leaving France.

“These are people who are beginning their professional and family lives and yet still look at moving elsewhere,” she said. “It is pretty surprising and pretty unsettling to see that.”

She and her husband do not wear outward symbols of their faith, but they recently moved into a new apartment and had to decide where to put their mezuzah, a small box usually posted on the outside doorframe indicating that a home is Jewish. Police told a friend whose home had been broken into that it was because she had a mezuzah outside. “We preferred to keep it inside, which is not normal,” Prasquier said. After they moved in, her husband’s name was ripped off the intercom, leading them to suspect it was because the name – Benhamou – was Jewish.

A 48-year-old Paris businessman house-hunting in Montreal this week asked not to be named because the move is not finalized. He and his wife are Jewish, though not practising, and the current climate contributed to their desire to get out of France.

“I can tell you that there is not a single dinner in Paris where Jews are present that the principal subject of discussion is not around, ‘Where do we go?’ and ‘When do we leave?’ ” he said.

He does not feel personally threatened, but the mood is gloomy. “You say to yourself, ‘It has deteriorated incredibly in 10 years. What will it be like in another 10 years?’ Better to leave while you can, without being forced, instead of doing it in a panic.”

Christinne Muschi for National Post
Christinne Muschi for National PostFrederic Saadoun, centre, participates in the annual Israel march in downtown Montreal, April 23, 2015. For story by G. Hamilton.
Laurent, a 30-year-old working in information technology in Montreal, moved from France last year with his wife. He said anti-Semitism was one factor among others that prompted them to leave. “I found my Jewish identity was not fully represented in France,” he said. “I could not walk in the street wearing a kippa.”

In Montreal he has been surprised by how open people are about their Judaism. “We feel we are flourishing with our Jewish identity, able to live it fully,” he said. Still, some old fears linger. He asked that his full name not be published in case co-workers or immigration officials judge him based on his faith.

“Maybe it’s a little paranoid,” he said. “Maybe it will be different in five years and I will laugh at this.”

Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
Jeff J Mitchell/Getty ImagesChildren look out from a doorway as armed soldiers patrol outside a School in the Jewish quarter of the Marais district on January 13, 2015 in Paris, France.
Rhubarb Sebbag, rabbi at Paris’s Grande Synagogue, sees congregants leaving regularly, and after Israel, Canada is a popular destination. There is the “brilliant engineer” on his way to Montreal with his family, the young woman who went there and married and students who may or may not return to France.

It pains him, but he recognizes the decisions are personal. “As rabbi of the Grande Synagogue, I have to tell Jews to stay, that it’s going to pass, but I understand why people are worried,” he said. And he has no doubt that if Canada were to shorten immigration delays and roll out the welcome mat in Jewish publications in France, many more French Jews would choose it as a destination “There is a malaise today,” he said.

On Thursday, Saadoun took part in the annual march through downtown Montreal marking Israel’s independence day, and the only malaise was caused by unseasonably chilly weather. He said that such an event could never be held in Paris without heavy police protection for the marchers. In Montreal, he said, “We can express ourselves as Jews. We feel safe.”
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Re: France

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afr ... story.html
Residents: French soldiers raped African children in camp

By Hippolyte Marboua and Angela Charlton | AP April 30 at 12:44 PM


BANGUI, Central African Republic — Residents of a squalid refugee camp said Thursday that French soldiers tasked with protecting civilians had sexually abused boys as young as 9 years old, luring the children with army rations and small change when their families had nothing to feed them.

The accounts given to The Associated Press by one of the boys’ mother and another woman living in the camp came a day after French authorities acknowledged that investigations into the allegations had been underway for months. The children — who described to investigators last year how they were given bottles of water after being sodomized — are still living in the refugee camp, relatives said.

The French government has not explained why the probe was kept quiet, though France’s president promised tough punishment for any soldier found guilty. The probe came to light Wednesday in a report in Britain’s the Guardian newspaper after the alleged whistleblower at the United Nations was removed from his duties.

“For the moment, we don’t know if the facts have been proven,” military spokesman Col. Gilles Jaron said Thursday, stressing the importance of the French military operation in limiting the bloodshed in Central African Republic where thousands died amid fighting between Muslims and Christians.

France, the former colonizer of Central African Republic, sent several thousand additional troops to Bangui in late 2013 and in early 2014 amid sectarian violence that prompted tens of thousands to seek refuge on the grounds of the capital’s airport.

The mother of one of the children told AP that her son was just 9 years old when he was assaulted by French soldiers. She spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to identify her son as a victim of sexual abuse.

Her family had fled to the airport the first day of the sectarian clashes in December 2013, and she and her son are still living there.

“The children were vulnerable because they were hungry and their parents had nothing to give them, so the children were forced to ask the soldiers for food,” she recalled.


“They took advantage of the children forcing them to perform oral sex and also sodomizing them,” she said. “The moaning of children in the area often started around 10 p.m. or 11 p.m.”

Another resident said other abused children ranged in age from 10 years old to 13.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: France

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Doc wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afr ... story.html
Residents: French soldiers raped African children in camp

By Hippolyte Marboua and Angela Charlton | AP April 30 at 12:44 PM


BANGUI, Central African Republic — Residents of a squalid refugee camp said Thursday that French soldiers tasked with protecting civilians had sexually abused boys as young as 9 years old, luring the children with army rations and small change when their families had nothing to feed them.

The accounts given to The Associated Press by one of the boys’ mother and another woman living in the camp came a day after French authorities acknowledged that investigations into the allegations had been underway for months. The children — who described to investigators last year how they were given bottles of water after being sodomized — are still living in the refugee camp, relatives said.

The French government has not explained why the probe was kept quiet, though France’s president promised tough punishment for any soldier found guilty. The probe came to light Wednesday in a report in Britain’s the Guardian newspaper after the alleged whistleblower at the United Nations was removed from his duties.

“For the moment, we don’t know if the facts have been proven,” military spokesman Col. Gilles Jaron said Thursday, stressing the importance of the French military operation in limiting the bloodshed in Central African Republic where thousands died amid fighting between Muslims and Christians.

France, the former colonizer of Central African Republic, sent several thousand additional troops to Bangui in late 2013 and in early 2014 amid sectarian violence that prompted tens of thousands to seek refuge on the grounds of the capital’s airport.

The mother of one of the children told AP that her son was just 9 years old when he was assaulted by French soldiers. She spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to identify her son as a victim of sexual abuse.

Her family had fled to the airport the first day of the sectarian clashes in December 2013, and she and her son are still living there.

“The children were vulnerable because they were hungry and their parents had nothing to give them, so the children were forced to ask the soldiers for food,” she recalled.


“They took advantage of the children forcing them to perform oral sex and also sodomizing them,” she said. “The moaning of children in the area often started around 10 p.m. or 11 p.m.”

Another resident said other abused children ranged in age from 10 years old to 13.
French "Foreign Legion" put together from "foreign criminals", have won no battles, no wars, for France .. they only brought shame and disgrace for France, in Africa and Indochina

Time to abolish them

.
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Re: France

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Doc wrote:
Residents: French soldiers raped African children in camp
Could happen with many armies of many other countries, but it's more likely to happen with mercenary and professional armies, where people volunteer to kill for money, not to defend against aggression. Time to go back to conscription and people's armies, even at the risk of decreasing military capabilities. Which isn't even sure. Portuguese special troops in Africa, in 1961-1974, were extremely capable and they were all conscripts. And they didn't commit war crimes.
Comandos 2.JPG
Comandos 2.JPG (76.65 KiB) Viewed 968 times
They didn't look fancy, didn't wear bullet vests or helmets, they were good and they didn't molest children... Sorry, guys, but after all these years I am still damn proud of those guys. I guess I'm getting old...
Simple Minded

Re: France

Post by Simple Minded »

Endovelico wrote:
They didn't look fancy, didn't wear bullet vests or helmets, they were good and they didn't molest children... Sorry, guys, but after all these years I am still damn proud of those guys. I guess I'm getting old...
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they were ordinary citizens doing a temporary job. Same theory applied to politicians once upon a time. The idea of a career soldier or politician used to be a rare thing.

I spoke with the grandmother of a French friend who was a teen in France during WWII. She fell in love with a couple American soldiers. The grand daughter says "Since they did not try to f**k her, she thinks they were great!"

Imagine that, sometimes, all you have to do is to not try to f**k people, and they will like you!
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Re: France

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
Doc wrote:
Residents: French soldiers raped African children in camp
Could happen with many armies of many other countries, but it's more likely to happen with mercenary and professional armies, where people volunteer to kill for money, not to defend against aggression. Time to go back to conscription and people's armies, even at the risk of decreasing military capabilities. Which isn't even sure. Portuguese special troops in Africa, in 1961-1974, were extremely capable and they were all conscripts. And they didn't commit war crimes.
Comandos 2.JPG
They didn't look fancy, didn't wear bullet vests or helmets, they were good and they didn't molest children... Sorry, guys, but after all these years I am still damn proud of those guys. I guess I'm getting old...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War

Unlike other European nations during the 1950s and 1960s, the Portuguese Estado Novo regime did not withdraw from its African colonies, or the overseas provinces (províncias ultramarinas) as those territories had been officially called since 1951. During the 1960s, various armed independence movements became active in these Portugal-administered territories, namely in Angola, Mozambique, and Portuguese Guinea. During the ensuing conflict, atrocities were committed by all forces involved.[7] The decolonization and independence of several African states after World War II, the Invasion of Goa by Indian Armed Forces and the Santa Maria hijacking, and the achievements of the African-American Civil Rights Movement, were also signs of the "Winds of change" supporting independence movements in Portuguese Africa.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: France

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Doc wrote:During the ensuing conflict, atrocities were committed by all forces involved
In 13 years war in Africa there has been only one reasonably well documented atrocity committed in Wyriamu, in Mozambique. Every time one comes across reports of atrocities by the Portuguese in Africa, this is the one event reported. Interesting enough it was a local Mozambican unit - whose soldiers were mostly black Mozambicans - which was responsible for the said atrocity. There were other cases of individual acts of atrocity, including some odd beheadings of slain rebels, mostly in 1961 in northern Angola. I'm sure the local political police must have had a fair share of torture incidents, but none - as far as I know - by the regular army. All in all a remarkable record for a war in which it was all too easy for the local rural population to be caught in crossfire.
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Re: France

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Endovelico wrote:
Doc wrote:During the ensuing conflict, atrocities were committed by all forces involved
In 13 years war in Africa there has been only one reasonably well documented atrocity committed in Wyriamu, in Mozambique. Every time one comes across reports of atrocities by the Portuguese in Africa, this is the one event reported. Interesting enough it was a local Mozambican unit - whose soldiers were mostly black Mozambicans - which was responsible for the said atrocity. There were other cases of individual acts of atrocity, including some odd beheadings of slain rebels, mostly in 1961 in northern Angola. I'm sure the local political police must have had a fair share of torture incidents, but none - as far as I know - by the regular army. All in all a remarkable record for a war in which it was all too easy for the local rural population to be caught in crossfire.
In response, Portuguese Armed Forces instituted a harsh policy of reciprocity by torturing and massacring rebels and protesters. Some Portuguese soldiers decapitated rebels and impaled their heads on stakes, pursuing a policy of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Much of the initial offensive operations against Angolan UPA and MPLA insurgents was undertaken by four companies of Caçadores Especiais (Special Hunter) troops skilled in light infantry and antiguerrilla tactics, and who were already stationed in Angola at the outbreak of fighting.[62] Individual Portuguese counterinsurgency commanders such as Second Lieutenant Fernando Robles of the 6ª Companhia de Caçadores Especiais became well known throughout the country for their ruthlessness in hunting down insurgents.[63]
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: France

Post by Endovelico »

Doc wrote:In response, Portuguese Armed Forces instituted a harsh policy of reciprocity by torturing and massacring rebels and protesters. Some Portuguese soldiers decapitated rebels and impaled their heads on stakes, pursuing a policy of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Much of the initial offensive operations against Angolan UPA and MPLA insurgents was undertaken by four companies of Caçadores Especiais (Special Hunter) troops skilled in light infantry and antiguerrilla tactics, and who were already stationed in Angola at the outbreak of fighting.[62] Individual Portuguese counterinsurgency commanders such as Second Lieutenant Fernando Robles of the 6ª Companhia de Caçadores Especiais became well known throughout the country for their ruthlessness in hunting down insurgents.[63]
I'm sorry but this is complete BS. The first troops sent to Angola in 1961 were poorly trained and certainly were not "special" in any way. They had not received any training in counterinsurgency, because such training did not then exist. When they reoccupied northern Angola they found white owned farms where everybody, men, women and children had been killed (and the women raped), whether white or black. This led to some excesses against rebels including the referred beheadings (only of already death rebels). Quite possibly some villages were burnt to the ground and some civilians killed. But this was not official policy nor a strategic decision. And it soon stopped. Interrogation under torture was carried out by special police, but not by the army. Second lieutenant Robles was not only a murderer - who was soon brought back to Portugal, because of his behaviour - but was widely seen as such, even within the army. No army is made up of saints, but ours behaved a lot better than most armies under similar conditions. Having been in Angola from 1966 to 1968, in an operational zone, I never saw any atrocity nor had any information of such atrocities having taken place in Eastern Angola. As the second in command of my unit I had access to all secret operational reports, and never read anything of such a nature. White soldiers mingled freely with the population, they were never the target of any attacks, nor were they restricted to army compounds for their safety. Which could only happen because there was no hostility between the army and the local population. Besides, by 1973 nearly half of all military in Angola were Angolan, which made relations with the population a lot friendlier. But, of course, you are free to disbelieve me...
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Re: France

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
Doc wrote:In response, Portuguese Armed Forces instituted a harsh policy of reciprocity by torturing and massacring rebels and protesters. Some Portuguese soldiers decapitated rebels and impaled their heads on stakes, pursuing a policy of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Much of the initial offensive operations against Angolan UPA and MPLA insurgents was undertaken by four companies of Caçadores Especiais (Special Hunter) troops skilled in light infantry and antiguerrilla tactics, and who were already stationed in Angola at the outbreak of fighting.[62] Individual Portuguese counterinsurgency commanders such as Second Lieutenant Fernando Robles of the 6ª Companhia de Caçadores Especiais became well known throughout the country for their ruthlessness in hunting down insurgents.[63]
I'm sorry but this is complete BS. The first troops sent to Angola in 1961 were poorly trained and certainly were not "special" in any way. They had not received any training in counterinsurgency, because such training did not then exist. When they reoccupied northern Angola they found white owned farms where everybody, men, women and children had been killed (and the women raped), whether white or black. This led to some excesses against rebels including the referred beheadings (only of already death rebels). Quite possibly some villages were burnt to the ground and some civilians killed. But this was not official policy nor a strategic decision. And it soon stopped. Interrogation under torture was carried out by special police, but not by the army. Second lieutenant Robles was not only a murderer - who was soon brought back to Portugal, because of his behaviour - but was widely seen as such, even within the army. No army is made up of saints, but ours behaved a lot better than most armies under similar conditions. Having been in Angola from 1966 to 1968, in an operational zone, I never saw any atrocity nor had any information of such atrocities having taken place in Eastern Angola. As the second in command of my unit I had access to all secret operational reports, and never read anything of such a nature. White soldiers mingled freely with the population, they were never the target of any attacks, nor were they restricted to army compounds for their safety. Which could only happen because there was no hostility between the army and the local population. Besides, by 1973 nearly half of all military in Angola were Angolan, which made relations with the population a lot friendlier. But, of course, you are free to disbelieve me...
Documentary desanitizes Portugal's past


A TV series gives the nation an accurate look at 20th century brutality carried out in its name in Africa.

March 09, 2008|Barry Hatton | Associated Press

LISBON — The heads of enemy soldiers impaled on roadside trees. Hundreds of prisoners tortured, killed and dumped in mass graves. Napalm dropped on jungles where guerrillas sheltered, and grass-hut villages torched with cigarette lighters.

These gruesome acts were carried out in Portugal's name two generations ago during its colonial wars in Africa. But for most Portuguese, the events aren't history -- they're news.

A groundbreaking series aired by public broadcaster Radiotelevisao Portuguesa is confronting Portugal with unsettling aspects of its recent history that for decades have been shrouded in silence. The series has become a top-rated prime-time program and the most-watched documentary in years, regularly drawing more than 1 million viewers in a country of 10.6 million.

"People had spoken very little about what happened," said Joaquim Furtado, the Portuguese journalist who created the series. "The effect, I think, has been positive. People won't be able to see things in simplistic terms now."

Portugal isn't the only European country being forced to address unpalatable aspects of its colonial legacy.

Three years ago, Belgium was shocked by a documentary portraying King Leopold II's brutal 19th century exploitation of what was once the Belgian Congo.

In 2002, France had to revisit one of the darkest moments of its recent past when a Paris court convicted an aging French general for "complicity in justifying war crimes," in connection with his bestselling book about atrocities during a seven-year war that ended with Algeria's independence in 1962.

Portugal's wars against independence fighters in its 500-year-old African empire erupted in 1961 in Angola. In surprise attacks, rebels butchered Portuguese settlers, including women and children, on remote Angolan plantations. In revenge, Portuguese militias and troops carried out a vicious campaign of repression, despite pressure from the United States and United Nations to pull out of Africa.

Filmmaker Furtado, a well-known journalist with an almost 40-year career, spent more than six years digging up hundreds of hours of film footage and masses of photographs, some never seen in public. He also gathered accounts from war veterans on both sides, many of whom hadn't spoken out before.

In the former Portuguese colony of Mozambique, the documentary has been greeted with quiet satisfaction but no calls for an official apology or compensation.

"No one is going to react angrily to the film because it shows the past, not the present. The past is the past, the present is the present," said Custodio Rafael, a journalist with Radio Mozambique.

For Africans, the Portuguese atrocities have long been a matter of historical fact. But in Portugal, it has taken this documentary to explode the nation's myths about its colonial rule, which ended in 1974.

Antonio Salazar's dictatorship, established in the 1930s, kept Portugal in the dark about what was happening thousands of miles away on another continent. His censors killed unfavorable newspaper articles, and state media encouraged the war effort with reports of heroic deeds against insurgents.

Within a year, the Angolan rebellion subsided. But parallel wars broke out in Mozambique and another Portuguese African colony, Guinea-Bissau.

Salazar, mindful that the African colonies enriched his nation and lent it a Cold War stature beyond its size, waged a propaganda battle that included the unremitting government slogan "Angola e nossa!" -- Angola is ours! -- that was even broadcast over loudspeakers at packed beaches.

Salazar, a flinty and unbending leader, changed the designation of the colonies to "overseas territories" and depicted their peoples as Portuguese who were treated as equals and were eager to remain under Lisbon's wing.

Ask Portuguese today about their colonial administration and they will insist it was benign, so radio phone-in shows are abuzz over the newly revealed facts.

Luis Quintais, an anthropologist at Portugal's Coimbra University who has written a book about the African conflicts, says they have "been immersed in a huge silence," while Portuguese history is rendered as the chronicle of a small, gentle country bullied by bigger European powers.

"We think of our colonization as having been soft, or mild, compared to other countries. But it wasn't, it was just the same," Quintais said. "We like to portray ourselves as victims, not victimizers."
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/09 ... -portugal9
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Endovelico
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Re: France

Post by Endovelico »

Doc wrote:
Documentary desanitizes Portugal's past
Sorry if I repeat myself, but this is complete BS! I was in Portugal in 2008 and I don't remember any groundbreaking tv programme on the Africa wars at that time. I do remember that a programme on that war was indeed aired on RTP2, the smallest of our tv stations, which has a very limited audience at the best of times (no more than 2%). No way a programme aired there would have reached more than a few tens of thousands viewers and thus it could not have made much of an impression. More than 500,000 Portuguese soldiers were sent to war in Africa from 1961 to 1974. In other words, most people know from experience what happened there, and no fanciful tv programme would draw anyone's attention. As I mentioned before there were a few occurrences of excessive violence, mostly in 1961 in northern Angola and in Wyryamu, in Mozambique, in 1972 or 1973. And the special police did interrogate prisoners under torture. For the rest the linked article is plain nonsense. But it is true that napalm was used on occasion, and thus it is quite possible that non-combatants may have been victims of it. An Angolan colleague of mine at the university, who at the time was arrested for being a member of MPLA and taken to the Tarrafal concentration camp, in Cape Verde, referred in some detail the situation there and made a point of saying that he had never been subject to physical violence or torture. Which doesn't mean that there may not have been other prisoners who were less lucky. Rebels were killed in action, not after being taken prisoner. From my personal experience and from what I heard from friends who had also been there, after 1961, in northern Angola, as a rule no prisoners were killed by the army. Contrarily to what happens in the US armed forces, we didn't feel any hatred against the enemy nor did we get into a rage if a "buddy" of ours was killed in action. We didn't try to take revenge on the enemy. We did our job and killed rebels mostly to ensure they wouldn't kill us. And no heroics whatsoever... Generally speaking we were quite effective in fighting the rebels, and one of the reasons for that effectiveness was that we didn't voluntarily harm the civilian population. Rebels were mostly isolated from the common people, except in some limited jungle areas, which made it easier to fight them without harming the other people. I know some of you will rather believe the fanciful article than me, but I assure you that we have very little on our conscience.
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Re: France

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Very well, in this case it is worth mentioning that almost all the antisemitic attacks in France are done by those Muslim Arabs of North African ancestry (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria), and almost none of these attacks are done by the Turkish, Iranian, or other Muslim immigrants.

However, as a historic irony, the overwhelming majority of the 480,000 French Jews also descend from Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria. (This is taking into account their higher birth rate, after they went to France after World War II.) The world is very small indeed. :roll:

That begin said, it is important to know why the majority of the French Jews are from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, even though before World War II there were very few North African Mizrahi Jews in France.

Here is the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exo ... _countries

As we speak, there are only about 8,000 Jews living in Arab countries, whereas before World War II, there were roughly 800,000. In a nutshell 99 % of the Arab Jews left after WW II, mostly due to the new wave of antisemitism that was due to a combination of Nazi propanda during WW II and also due to the fact that Arab Jews were considered accountable for the creation of Israel in the Arab world (they were not accountable because most of them knew nothing about Zionism, which was initiated by North European Jews.)

The common narrative in the Arab world is that Arab Jews betrayed their (Arab) countries by going to Israel. But the fact is that only about 65 % of the Arab Jews went to Israel, the rest went to France, South Africa, Argentina, USA, Australia, etc. The poorest ones who did not get visas to Western countries or the ones who were more religious went to Israel.

Another narrative in the Arab world is that Zionist propaganda including fake bombs that Israelis planted, etc, were responsible for the Arab Jews going to Israel. By the way, there was certainly some Zionist propaganda (including the fake bombs etc) to bring more of them to Israel, but this was a small factor in the total antisemitic hostility that made the emigration of the Arab Jews to other countries obligatory at any price. In particular, given that only 8,000 Jews remain in Arab countries out of 800,000 (that is 1 % of the total before WW II), Zionist manipulation does not explain this migration, especially when only 65 % went to Israel and many others went to other countries in desperation due to the harassment. After all, there was even more Zionist advertising in America and Europe to bring Jews to Israel, but a much smaller percentage of European or American Jews went to Israel.
The name HAL is derived from "Heuristically Programmed ALgorithmic Computer." HAL 10000 is the new generation computer destined to become the successor to HAL 9000, as suggested in Arthur C. Clarke's book.
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Re: France

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HAL 10000 wrote:Very well, in this case it is worth mentioning that almost all the antisemitic attacks in France are done by those Muslim Arabs of North African ancestry (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria), and almost none of these attacks are done by the Turkish, Iranian, or other Muslim immigrants.

However, as a historic irony, the overwhelming majority of the 480,000 French Jews also descend from Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria. (This is taking into account their higher birth rate, after they went to France after World War II.) The world is very small indeed. :roll:
There's something else worth mentioning.
Uri Avnery wrote:THE BLOOD of the four Jews murdered in the kosher supermarket was not yet dry, when Israeli leaders called upon the Jews in France to pack up and come to Israel. Israel, as everybody knows, is the safest place on earth.

This was an almost automatic Zionist gut reaction. Jews are in danger. Their only safe haven is Israel. Make haste and come. The next day Israeli papers reported joyfully that in 2015 more than 10,000 French Jews were about to come to live here, driven by growing anti-Semitism.

Apparently, there is a lot of anti-Semitism in France and other European countries, though probably far less than Islamophobia. But the fight between Jews and Arabs on French soil has little to do with anti-Semitism. It is a struggle imported from North Africa.

When the Algerian war of liberation broke out in 1954, the Jews there had to choose sides. Almost all decided to support the colonial power, France, against the Algerian people.

That had a historical background. In 1870, the French minister of justice, Adolphe Cremieux, who happened to be a Jew, conferred French citizenship on all Algerian Jews, separating them from their Muslim neighbors.

The Algerian Liberation Front (FLN) tried very hard to draw the local Jews to their side. I know because I was somewhat involved. Their underground organization in France asked me to set up an Israeli support group, in order to convince our Algerian co-religionists. I founded the "Israeli Committee For A Free Algeria" and published material which was used by the FLN in their effort to win over the Jews.

In vain. The local Jews, proud of their French citizenship, staunchly supported the colonists. In the end, the Jews were prominent in the OAS, the extreme French underground which conducted a bloody struggle against the freedom fighters. The result was that practically all the Jews fled Algeria together with the French when the day of reckoning arrived. They did not go to Israel. Almost all of them went to France. (Unlike the Moroccan and Tunisian Jews, many of whom came to Israel. Generally, the poorer and less educated chose Israel, while the French-educated elite went to France and Canada.)

What we see now is the continuation of this war between Algerian Muslims and Jews on French soil. All the four "French" Jews killed in the attack had North African names and were buried in Israel.

Not without trouble. The Israeli government put great pressure on the four families to bury their sons here. They wanted to bury them in France, near their homes. After a lot of haggling about the price of the graves, the families finally agreed.

It has been said that Israelis love immigration and don't love the immigrants. That certainly applies to the new "French" immigrants. In recent years, "French" tourists have been coming here in large numbers. They were often disliked. Especially when they started to buy up apartments on the Tel Aviv sea front and left them empty, as a kind of insurance, while young local people could neither find nor afford apartments in the metropolitan area. Practically all these "French" tourists and immigrants are of North African origin.
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Parodite
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Re: France

Post by Parodite »

I doubt that French Jews, or other non-Israeli Jews for that matter, are more likely to emigrate to Israel because of promotional verbiage of the dorked Netanyahu gvt. I also doubt that anti-Semitic incidents in France by Muslims of North-African origin are fed by what happened for example in the 50-ies in Algeria.

It seems to me that for the most part it is fed by the Israeli-Arab conflict, the general feeling that Islam is under attack from Western forces and culture, and an amount of anti-Semitism that just infects and spreads more randomly like any other virus.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: France

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

HAL 10000 wrote:.

. . it is worth mentioning that almost all the antisemitic attacks in France are done by those Muslim Arabs of North African ancestry (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria), and almost none of these attacks are done by the Turkish, Iranian, or other Muslim immigrants.

.

Said many times, this nothing to do with religion, Muslim or otherwise

Iranians, Turks or any others (of any religion, Muslim or otherwise) have not lost their homes and olive groves to invaders from Latvia or Estonia or Ukraine and their accomplices from (Jewish) Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria .. why should Iranian attack Moroccan Jews ? ?

and

What you are sayin means in reality that the "French" (or Brits or Dutch or other Europeans) themselves are not anti-semite but the bad "North African Muslims" in France .. which is nonsense

All those anti semite attacks in Germany is done by Germans themselves, in UK too attacks are by Brits themselves.

Met very few Europeans who are not (somehow) anti semite, some nations (Austria) are openly and vast majority anti-semite.

Interesting statistics


.
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HAL 10000
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Re: France

Post by HAL 10000 »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
HAL 10000 wrote:.

. . it is worth mentioning that almost all the antisemitic attacks in France are done by those Muslim Arabs of North African ancestry (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria), and almost none of these attacks are done by the Turkish, Iranian, or other Muslim immigrants.

.

Said many times, this nothing to do with religion, Muslim or otherwise

Iranians, Turks or any others (of any religion, Muslim or otherwise) have not lost their homes and olive groves to invaders from Latvia or Estonia or Ukraine and their accomplices from (Jewish) Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria .. why should Iranian attack Moroccan Jews ? ?

and

What you are sayin means in reality that the "French" (or Brits or Dutch or other Europeans) themselves are not anti-semite but the bad "North African Muslims" in France .. which is nonsense

All those anti semite attacks in Germany is done by Germans themselves, in UK too attacks are by Brits themselves.

Met very few Europeans who are not (somehow) anti semite, some nations (Austria) are openly and vast majority anti-semite.

Interesting statistics


.

Statistically, the antisemitic opinion in UK, Germany, US and even France among non-Muslims is far less than that antisemitic opinion of the Muslims in those European countries. If you deny this, you are not saying the truth.

Separately, the Moroccan Arabs are very different from the Palestinians, in fact, most Arab countries, such as Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq did NOT give citizenship to Palestinian refugees and treated them as second-class people even though most Palestinian refugees were Muslim. The harassment of Jews in Arab countries (who were NOT yet Zionists before they were forced to leave Arab lands) just used the Palestinian suffering an excuse.

In any case, the Arab Jews did not deserve being kicked out any more than the Palestinians who were kicked out. If you think that the way the Arab Jews were treated is less criminal than the way the Palestinians were treated, then of course this reveals what kind of person you are.

Separately, there are still 1.5 million Palestinian Muslim Arabs inside Israel and they still have their Israeli passports and their homes, while only 8,000 Jews remain in Arab countries. And as I said, not all of the Jewish Arabs went to Israel, many of them escaped to other countries such as France, UK, Canada, US, etc. But the Jewish Arabs who escaped to Europe are NOT killing Muslim Arab immigrants in France for having kicked them out of their homes. Show me one Jewish Mizrahi French Jew who attacks Moroccan Arabs in France. Just one.
The name HAL is derived from "Heuristically Programmed ALgorithmic Computer." HAL 10000 is the new generation computer destined to become the successor to HAL 9000, as suggested in Arthur C. Clarke's book.
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