Re: The U.K.
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:12 pm
Note: spelling and punctuation errors due to these posts being made on iPhone. A modern miracle in the palm of even "homeless" Americans. Utopian prosperity literally in our grasp!
Another day in the Universe
https://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/
https://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1578
Tl;dnr much.Zack Morris wrote:Progressive policies have brought near-utopia to developed countries. Life in the US and Europe was terrible prior to the 1930's. Citizens had few rights, even fewer luxuries, and no dignity.
Today, all are awash in prosperity and largely conflict-free existence facilitated in no small part by a shift in how government's provide for their citizens and interact with each other.
Noisy grumbling is due to lack of perspective. Small problems amplified into stupid-fest of modern conservative politics. We have landed gentry here living high on the hog, with ample liesure time to rail on social media (this forum) about zoning laws infringing on their right to living zoning law-free and imaginary Aztlan/Mexican secession movement in a part of the country they don't live or visit. Tell tale signs of utopian status.
Venezuela neither progressive nor modern. Nothing demonstrated.Mr. Perfect wrote:Tl;dnr much.Zack Morris wrote:Progressive policies have brought near-utopia to developed countries. Life in the US and Europe was terrible prior to the 1930's. Citizens had few rights, even fewer luxuries, and no dignity.
Today, all are awash in prosperity and largely conflict-free existence facilitated in no small part by a shift in how government's provide for their citizens and interact with each other.
Noisy grumbling is due to lack of perspective. Small problems amplified into stupid-fest of modern conservative politics. We have landed gentry here living high on the hog, with ample liesure time to rail on social media (this forum) about zoning laws infringing on their right to living zoning law-free and imaginary Aztlan/Mexican secession movement in a part of the country they don't live or visit. Tell tale signs of utopian status.
Unfettered progressivism created Venezuela. Capitalism created your phone. Qed.
Back to the drawing board for you.
So why are you guys throwing tantrums about the Brexit then. Are you reading these before posting.Zack Morris wrote:EU as a political body has well known failures. That's only partly what drove Brexit, which played up immigration and alleged harm caused by free trade. Those things are not going away. EU political framework will inevitably be replaced. Mobility and free trade will remain in whatever new order emerges. Brexiters will get none of what they wanted: no protectionism, no reversal of immigration, no magical increase in NHS spending from imaginary EU savings.
Venezuela is not modern because it fully embraced progressivism.Zack Morris wrote: Venezuela neither progressive nor modern.
I demonstrated that your phone was made by capitalism and not progressivism. Still waiting on a Venezuela phone.Nothing demonstrated.
1980's Reaganism is more what we're going for. Here in America he is considered our greatest President, and for good reason.Any model conservative countries? Pakistan perhaps? Limited central government, widespread firearm ownership, lax regulatory environment, pro-family and pro-religion attitudes. "Average Joe" runs the show and can be himself.
Indonesia also a conservative paradise.
Not a model, but getting there:Zack Morris wrote:Any model conservative countries? Pakistan perhaps? Limited central government, widespread firearm ownership, lax regulatory environment, pro-family and pro-religion attitudes. "Average Joe" runs the show and can be himself.
Indonesia also a conservative paradise.
Like Orbán in Hungary, Kaczyński is suspected by many of his opponents of seeking to elevate a new rank of elites, through the creation of an economy with heavy state control. During his speech, he denounced Leszek Balcerowicz, the liberal economist whose 1989 shock therapy is widely credited for Poland’s post-Communist economic rise, and announced a program aimed at creating a “new redistribution of wealth.” And then, after thanking the delegates for his nearly unanimous election as party leader, he concluded: “I see this result as a vote of confidence, but also an authorization to be the real, true leader of this great movement of change.”
Problem is, the EU is neither one thing nor another. It should either be a fully fledged federal state, with the European Parliament granted primacy over national parliaments which become equivalent to US states; or a purely free trade area for goods and services, a WTO without tariffs, with member states retaining control over flows of capital and labour. In both cases economic efficiency and democracy are then reconciled.
Typhoon wrote:.
So the UK May have a new PM.
Looks like she plans to get Brexit over and done with.
.
Personally I think the EU got off on the wrong direction. Instead of have one big clump of government they should have gone to city states with big walls surrounding. Then everyone inside and outside the walls could be free to do whatever their local constitution allowed for.Simple Minded wrote:EU should charge quarterly dues, and membership should be open to anyone on Earth who wants to join. If my dues are currently paid, my EU/EBT/WIC card works just like a debit card. If my dues aren't paid, my balance is zero and I have no benefits.
If I want to be a EUropean for six months a year and live/vaca there, why not?
Why make is more complicated/racist/xenophobic than belonging to a Sam's club or renting a timeshare beach house (EUSouth) or ski lodge (EUNorth)?
First EU nation/region that adopts the Simple Minded EUropean plan will make the others obsolete.
Doc wrote:Personally I think the EU got off on the wrong direction. Instead of have one big clump of government they should have gone to city states with big walls surrounding. Then everyone inside and outside the walls could be free to do whatever their local constitution allowed for.Simple Minded wrote:EU should charge quarterly dues, and membership should be open to anyone on Earth who wants to join. If my dues are currently paid, my EU/EBT/WIC card works just like a debit card. If my dues aren't paid, my balance is zero and I have no benefits.
If I want to be a EUropean for six months a year and live/vaca there, why not?
Why make is more complicated/racist/xenophobic than belonging to a Sam's club or renting a timeshare beach house (EUSouth) or ski lodge (EUNorth)?
First EU nation/region that adopts the Simple Minded EUropean plan will make the others obsolete.
You mean, like a certain Northern American country - that shining city on a hill - where some would like to build a great wall protecting that big city-state from its Southern neighbor?Doc wrote:Personally I think the EU got off on the wrong direction. Instead of have one big clump of government they should have gone to city states with big walls surrounding. Then everyone inside and outside the walls could be free to do whatever their local constitution allowed for.
Did you know that the drug trade in Mexico is bigger than oil exports?Alexis wrote:You mean, like a certain Northern American country - that shining city on a hill - where some would like to build a great wall protecting that big city-state from its Southern neighbor?Doc wrote:Personally I think the EU got off on the wrong direction. Instead of have one big clump of government they should have gone to city states with big walls surrounding. Then everyone inside and outside the walls could be free to do whatever their local constitution allowed for.![]()
I don't think a racist could make it as president in the US. I mean really "Ca" nada C'mon ! Califorinians no matter how loonie left they are they are not a race. Ca'nadians celebrate loonie-ism on their coins anywayI was obviously speaking of that country:
sCyzdD0vYOw
Johnson is now charged, as Britain’s foreign secretary, with negotiating a divorce with E.U. colleagues who largely hold him in contempt. The cheerfully undiplomatic former mayor of London has a long history of colorfully insulting other nations and leaders, but the sharpest anger is connected to his campaign for Britain to leave the E.U.
“I have no worries about Boris Johnson, but you know well what his style is,” French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault told France’s Europe 1 radio. “He lied a lot during the campaign.”
The reference covers a range of later-discredited claims by the anti-E.U. side before last month’s campaign, including the level of Britain’s payments to the European Union. The criticism from the usually buttoned-down Ayrault is almost without precedent in the discreet world of European politics, where top leaders typically attack one another’s policies, not characters. But it foretells the reception the mop-haired Johnson is likely to receive among the 27 other E.U. foreign ministers during the coming years of fraught negotiations. E.U. foreign ministers will meet in Brussels on Monday in Johnson’s first test as foreign secretary.
“I need a partner with whom one can negotiate and who is clear, credible, reliable,” Ayrault said.
[...]
Hours before Johnson’s appointment was made public Wednesday, Steinmeier lashed out at him without using his name, criticizing “irresponsible politicians” who lured Britain toward a “Brexit,” then “didn’t take responsibility and instead played cricket.” Johnson disappeared from public view in the days after last month’s shocking referendum result in favor of a British exit from the E.U. and instead played cricket at a friend’s country estate.
YMix wrote:Theresa May has just sent BoJo to his political death.
Johnson is now charged, as Britain’s foreign secretary, with negotiating a divorce with E.U. colleagues who largely hold him in contempt. The cheerfully undiplomatic former mayor of London has a long history of colorfully insulting other nations and leaders, but the sharpest anger is connected to his campaign for Britain to leave the E.U.
“I have no worries about Boris Johnson, but you know well what his style is,” French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault told France’s Europe 1 radio. “He lied a lot during the campaign.”
The reference covers a range of later-discredited claims by the anti-E.U. side before last month’s campaign, including the level of Britain’s payments to the European Union. The criticism from the usually buttoned-down Ayrault is almost without precedent in the discreet world of European politics, where top leaders typically attack one another’s policies, not characters. But it foretells the reception the mop-haired Johnson is likely to receive among the 27 other E.U. foreign ministers during the coming years of fraught negotiations. E.U. foreign ministers will meet in Brussels on Monday in Johnson’s first test as foreign secretary.
“I need a partner with whom one can negotiate and who is clear, credible, reliable,” Ayrault said.
[...]
Hours before Johnson’s appointment was made public Wednesday, Steinmeier lashed out at him without using his name, criticizing “irresponsible politicians” who lured Britain toward a “Brexit,” then “didn’t take responsibility and instead played cricket.” Johnson disappeared from public view in the days after last month’s shocking referendum result in favor of a British exit from the E.U. and instead played cricket at a friend’s country estate.
EU foreign ministers canceled an informal dinner planned for Sunday night at which they expected to discuss Brexit, saying it would be “inappropriate” after the terror attack in Nice.
Diplomats said some ministers were opposed to talking about the U.K.’s departure from the EU in the presence of its controversial new foreign secretary, Boris Johnson — whose surprise appointment this week drew scorn from his French and German counterparts.
[...]
“The desire of the entire 27 countries to do something with the Brits was frankly not very strong,” said a European diplomat. The source said several ministers felt the meeting was “a very bad idea.”
[...]
Another diplomat said the meeting was canceled because Mogherini did not “have the mandate to talk about Brexit.” The source added that EU leaders are planning to discuss British exit from the EU at an informal gathering in Bratislava on September 16.