Does America have a "gun culture"?

[Marcus]

Over on our Alaska forum, a member posted that ". . referring to gun ownership as a 'gun culture' it gives a negative connotation."

As a life-long gun-owner, shooter, and hunter, I don't equate gun ownership with a "gun culture," but I do believe a genuine, sort of subterranean gun culture exists in America today.

What about it? How do others, particularly non-Americans, see American vis-a-vis guns?

[Ibrahim]

America is unique in the developed world in its attitude to guns. This distinction has been referred to as America's "gun culture" and I'm not wedded to the term but an alternative would need to be suggested.

Consider that in all the culturally similar countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and most of Western Europe) gun ownership is legal and widespread, but the obsession with increasingly advanced firearms, and the stratospheric levels of gun homicide, are absent. In other places guns are mostly about hunting or rural living in general. There is something going in in America re: guns, call it what you will.

[Enki]

The answer is yes.

[noddy]

yep - the person i am and the background i grew up in i fully expect the american version of me would be a gun owner however in australia guns just never showed up in urban environments and thusly when they were banned from the city noone really noticed or cared.

this has nothing todo with government and precedes all authoritarian efforts to control them - i suspect the levels of drinking and fighting we had over here made most of the population suspicious of themselves in regards bringing a gun to a fist fight and the potential escalation.

[monster_gardener]

Over on our Alaska forum, a member posted that ". . referring to gun ownership as a 'gun culture' it gives a negative connotation."

As a life-long gun-owner, shooter, and hunter, I don't equate gun ownership with a "gun culture," but I do believe a genuine, sort of subterranean gun culture exists in America today.

What about it? How do others, particularly non-Americans, see American vis-a-vis guns?

Thank you Very Much for your post, Marcus

An anecdote from the biography of a near mid 20th Century Czech German girl......... "Hansi, the Girl Who Loved the Swastika"

http://www.amazon.com/Hansi-The-Girl-Lo ... 0842312900

Read decades ago........

IIRC Hansi recounted that post WW2 after she and a friend were raped by Russian soliders, she decided to cross over to the American Zone despite her fear of Americans as gum chewing gangsters with sub-machine guns gotten from movies and propaganda because for all that Uz were supposed to be more respectful of women despite being gangsters than Russian Bears were.......

She made it and found out that the rep was correct.........About the gum chewing and Uz respecting women more than Russian Bears did..

[Ibrahim]

this has nothing todo with government and precedes all authoritarian efforts to control them - i suspect the levels of drinking and fighting we had over here made most of the population suspicious of themselves in regards bringing a gun to a fist fight and the potential escalation.

Also lots of drinking and fistfighting in the UK, which has fairly strict gun laws. Can't say if its connected, but some people seem to prefer a brawl to a shootout.

[Marcus]

. . Americans as gum chewing gangsters with sub-machine guns gotten from movies and propaganda . .

With all due respect, mg, that was, what . . nearly 70 years ago? . . three or four generations? Note too that even then Americans were labeled with a gun-culture image emanating from the streets of Chicago to the streets of Laredo.

Much worse today what with our infatuation with Assault-Weapon platforms, high-cap magazines, violent video games, and a blood-soaked media? Hell, if this generation ain't screwing someone they're shooting someone.

Reckon . . . ?

[Ibrahim]

violent video games, and a blood-soaked media?

Lets leave Japan out of this.

[noddy]

the "american gun culture" is also why i think all the wet lefty conspiracy about the NRA is completely misguided... the australian version didnt have the membership or the dollars to have a public voice while the american version does.

symptoms are not causes.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

violent video games, and a blood-soaked media?

Lets leave Japan out of this.

Japan is left outta this, unless you're shouldering a großmesser as long as you're tall......'>>......

[Simple Minded]

Good thread, thanks for starting Marcus.

I suspect that if you are comfortable with guns as inanimate objects, you are part of the "gun culture," if you are not comfortable with the existence of guns, you are not part of the gun culture. In that regard, I hope the US has a gun culture.

noddy's first post makes an excellent point, most of those I know who are vehemently anti-gun, are those who do not seem to trust themselves. That they find the idea of giving "the others" the ability to kill by simpling pulling on a small lever with a couple pounds of force to be horrifying, often seems to be an honest fear of what they might become if they were given the technology. In some circles it is called projection.

The desire to impose one's will upon a nameless, faceless other is fascinating. The desire to deny the weak, and the law abiding, an inanimate object that to many is simply an inexpensive insurance policy seems absolutely evil and a very suspect motive. "God made some (wo)men big and some (wo)men small, Willian Colt made all (wo)men equal!"

The same mentality will be harnessed to ban computers, internet access, and social media. All of which are "tools" that the next Bernie Maddof or child molester may employ. Those who are comfortable with the existance of computers, internet access, and social media will find the motives of the social engineers to be absolutely evil and very suspect .

Those who are not comfortable with the existance of the computer, internet access, and social media "culture" will THEN be the moral high ground posers! "Lets do it for the children."

Be careful what you wish for!!!

[Simple Minded]

America is unique in the developed world in its attitude to guns..

Shirely, you jest! What neighborhood, block, town, city, county, or state are you talking about as developed?

Hell, most of the US is no more developed than the nations you mention below. Put down the spray gun and pick up a 1" paint brush bro

Consider that in all the culturally similar countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and most of Western Europe) gun ownership is legal and widespread, but the obsession with increasingly advanced firearms, and the stratospheric levels of gun homicide, are absent. In other places guns are mostly about hunting or rural living in general. There is something going in in America re: guns, call it what you will.

I am assuming that your blue text refers to "blue America." Guns should be banned in those barbaric enclaves! Er, uh, I mean, um, more banned!

[monster_gardener]

. . Americans as gum chewing gangsters with sub-machine guns gotten from movies and propaganda . .

With all due respect, mg, that was, what . . nearly 70 years ago? . . three or four generations? Note too that even then Americans were labeled with a gun-culture image emanating from the streets of Chicago to the streets of Laredo.

Much worse today what with our infatuation with Assault-Weapon platforms, high-cap magazines, violent video games, and a blood-soaked media? Hell, if this generation ain't screwing someone they're shooting someone.

Reckon . . . ?

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Marcus.

Reckon . . . ?

Perhaps but IMVHO not so much.......

Sometimes some of the games are off putting: Grand Theft Auto........

But recalling a Hogarth print of the awful atrocities school age children used to do to each other and to dog and cat persons as games...

And recalling some of the atrocities in the South which took either Lumbee Indians or Federal Troops to stop........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hayes_Pond

I believe the Law of the Conservation of Evil may be roughly correct.......

But still IMVHO I would still rather be a teen aged dating or even pregnant Uz girl than the same anywhere in the Middle East.......

Has happened in our extended family....

Multiple times.........

The more responsible members of the clan are not happy about it......

But it's better than no cubs/kittens at all as happens in Yer Time is Up Europe..........

It's the Next Generation .... that will hopefully Trek to the Stars

And how I got my favorite niece......

We're Down in the Black Gang Folks........

Mongrel Dogs and Cats...........

Not purebreds.........

Don't have a lot of high honor........

Or honor killings.........

Even though we have lots of knives and guns......

[YMix]

I suspect that if you are comfortable with guns as inanimate objects, you are part of the "gun culture," if you are not comfortable with the existence of guns, you are not part of the gun culture. In that regard, I hope the US has a gun culture.

noddy's first post makes an excellent point, most of those I know who are vehemently anti-gun, are those who do not seem to trust themselves. That they find the idea of giving "the others" the ability to kill by simpling pulling on a small lever with a couple pounds of force to be horrifying, often seems to be an honest fear of what they might become if they were given the technology. In some circles it is called projection.

Read Ibrahim's answer to the OP again. Guns are everywhere, but the US gun culture is unique. Most people around the world don't make a fuss about their guns. As strange as it may sound, in countries such as mine both the gun lover and the gun hater are practically aliens.

I'd say that this gun culture is probably part of the US technological fetishism. Even a warlike people such as the Afghans tends to focus on the warrior and the warrior qualities/values, not his weapons.

[monster_gardener]

Good thread, thanks for starting Marcus.

I suspect that if you are comfortable with guns as inanimate objects, you are part of the "gun culture," if you are not comfortable with the existence of guns, you are not part of the gun culture. In that regard, I hope the US has a gun culture.

noddy's first post makes an excellent point, most of those I know who are vehemently anti-gun, are those who do not seem to trust themselves. That they find the idea of giving "the others" the ability to kill by simpling pulling on a small lever with a couple pounds of force to be horrifying, often seems to be an honest fear of what they might become if they were given the technology. In some circles it is called projection.

The desire to impose one's will upon a nameless, faceless other is fascinating. The desire to deny the weak, and the law abiding, an inanimate object that to many is simply an inexpensive insurance policy seems absolutely evil and a very suspect motive. "God made some (wo)men big and some (wo)men small, Willian Colt made all (wo)men equal!"

The same mentality will be harnessed to ban computers, internet access, and social media. All of which are "tools" that the next Bernie Maddof or child molester may employ. Those who are comfortable with the existance of computers, internet access, and social media will find the motives of the social engineers to be absolutely evil and very suspect .

Those who are not comfortable with the existance of the computer, internet access, and social media "culture" will THEN be the moral high ground posers! "Lets do it for the children."

Be careful what you wish for!!!

Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Simple Minded.

"God made some (wo)men big and some (wo)men small, Willian Colt made all (wo)men equal!"

Seconded......

Second Amendmented

Be careful what you wish for!!!

Quite Right.......

You are a Genius Genie-Uz

Also Seconded.

[monster_gardener]

I suspect that if you are comfortable with guns as inanimate objects, you are part of the "gun culture," if you are not comfortable with the existence of guns, you are not part of the gun culture. In that regard, I hope the US has a gun culture.

noddy's first post makes an excellent point, most of those I know who are vehemently anti-gun, are those who do not seem to trust themselves. That they find the idea of giving "the others" the ability to kill by simpling pulling on a small lever with a couple pounds of force to be horrifying, often seems to be an honest fear of what they might become if they were given the technology. In some circles it is called projection.

Read Ibrahim's answer to the OP again. Guns are everywhere, but the US gun culture is unique. Most people around the world don't make a fuss about their guns. As strange as it may sound, in countries such as mine both the gun lover and the gun hater are practically aliens.

I'd say that this gun culture is probably part of the US technological fetishism. Even a warlike people such as the Afghans tends to focus on the warrior and the warrior qualities/values, not his weapons.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, YMix.

I'd say that this gun culture is probably part of the US technological fetishism. Even a warlike people such as the Afghans tends to focus on the warrior and the warrior qualities/values, not his weapons.

Interesting idea.....

Perhaps we Uz are like the Japanese........

Or are as they once were..........

The Japanese with their Soul of the Samurai Swords........

We Uz with our Guns.........

Remembering an old quote about why being able to bear arms is important....

That not being allowed to bear arms makes one despicable........

IIRC that getting a Coat of Arms is called "an Award of Arms".......

Maybe someday when Jesus returns or the Culture contacts us, we may be able to give up arms.........

Though I suspect that even then in Special Circumstances certain Angels will bear arms.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Circumstances

[YMix]

Perhaps we Uz are like the Japanese........

Or are as they once were..........

The Japanese with their Soul of the Samurai Swords........

No, that was mysticism and it still included the warrior qualities.

[monster_gardener]

Perhaps we Uz are like the Japanese........

Or are as they once were..........

The Japanese with their Soul of the Samurai Swords........

No, that was mysticism and it still included the warrior qualities.

Thank You Very Much for your post, YMix

Maybe.......

But IMVHO warrior qualities are included in use of guns.....

Know from personal experience that getting some people to be willing to bear arms against an abuser can be difficult......

Some people seem to be more afraid of weapons than abusers......

And suffer for it....

[YMix]

But IMVHO warrior qualities are included in use of guns.....

Owning a gun doesn't make you a warrior.

Takes more than combat boots to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun

[monster_gardener]

But IMVHO warrior qualities are included in use of guns.....

Owning a gun doesn't make you a warrior.

Takes more than combat boots to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun

Thank you Very Much for your post, YMix.

Owning a gun doesn't make you a warrior.

With all due respect, I did not say that......

I said "use of guns"..............

and "willing to bear arms against an abuser"

Could be just having gun in hand as you tell an abusive spouse on the other side of the door.... "I have 911 online.... Come through that door and I will shoot you as many times as necessary to stop you............

You can do that without a gun..........

But you may be in deep trouble if he/she still breaks down the door and you do not have one.........

[YMix]

"I have 911 online.... Come through that door and I will shoot you as many times as necessary to stop you............

You should've had a divorce by now. Still, what to do in a certain situation is a different topic.

[Typhoon]

But IMVHO warrior qualities are included in use of guns.....

Owning a gun doesn't make you a warrior.

. . .

Indeed.

One of the most famous American soldiers, Alvin C. York, enlisted as a conscientious objector.

The deadliest soldier in recorded history was a five foot tall Finnish farmer, Simo Häyhä

_____

As other have pointed out, owning guns and using in a rural setting for hunting [and protecting livestock from predators], is common in most parts of the world.
Owning and knowing how to use a gun can be considered a necessity in such an environment.

In Japan, it is possible, but difficult, to own a hunting rifle.

What is almost unique about the US among industrialized societies [only newly industrializing Brazil is comparable]

1/ the use of guns in homicides

2/ the level of gun violence in a particular sub-population: black

3/ the belief that one also needs to own hand-guns and [semi-automatic] rifles in an urban, as opposed to rural, environment

4/ the ease with which one can acquire a hand gun or [semi-automatic] rifle [easier than buying a cold decongestant, alcohol, or a hunting/fishing license or earning a drivers license]

5/ the paradoxical belief that gun ownership is necessary to "protect liberty and personal freedoms" while at the same time allowing, and even demanding that, the government take away ever more personal freedoms.

So, yes, I think that the US has a gun culture.

[monster_gardener]

"I have 911 online.... Come through that door and I will shoot you as many times as necessary to stop you............

You should've had a divorce by now. Still, what to do in a certain situation is a different topic.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, YMix.

I also gave that advice to the relative in question.....

Didn't want to do that....... Said the spouse had threatened to track her down and ruin her life.....

Still didn't want to have a gun....

I strongly suspect she was addicted to the lifestyle..........

Had married up........

Out of the Black Gang..........

I eventually gave up on her..........

Maybe she was right............

Still with him........

Still alive.........

But I no longer try to listen to her complaints about his abuse.........

Suspect that is what she wanted.........

Someone to listen to her complain.........

But not do anything.........

Her life........

Her decision......

Maybe her funeral...........

[monster_gardener]

But IMVHO warrior qualities are included in use of guns.....

Owning a gun doesn't make you a warrior.

. . .

Indeed.

One of the most famous American soldiers, Alvin C. York, enlisted as a conscientious objector.

The deadliest soldier in recorded history was a five foot tall Finnish farmer, Simo Häyhä

_____

As other have pointed out, owning guns and using in a rural setting for hunting [and protecting livestock from predators], is common in most parts of the world.

In Japan, it is possible, but difficult, to own a hunting rifle.

What is almost unique about the US among industrialized societies [only Brazil is comparable]

1/ the use of guns in homicides

2/ the level of gun violence in a particular sub-population: black

3/ the belief that one also needs to own hand-guns and [semi-automatic] rifles in an urban, as opposed to rural, environment

4/ the ease with which one can acquire a hand gun or semi-automatic rifle [easier than buying a cold decongestant, alcohol, or a hunting/fishing license or earning a drivers license]

5/ the paradoxical belief that gun ownership is necessary to "protect liberty and personal freedoms" while at the same time allowing, and even demanding that, the government take away ever more personal freedoms.

So, yes, I think that the US has a gun culture.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Typhoon.

the US has a gun culture.

Seconded.

I agree but think it is a good thing..........

The belief that one also needs to own hand-guns and [semi-automatic] rifles in an urban, as opposed to rural, environment

Perhaps especially in an urban environment.....

[Marcus]

the US has a gun culture.

Seconded.
I agree but think it is a good thing..........

The belief that one also needs to own hand-guns and [semi-automatic] rifles in an urban, as opposed to rural, environment

Perhaps especially in an urban environment.....

Frontline aired an absolutely excellent film on America's gun culture last evening . . fair and balanced to a fault.

Yes, America has a gun culture, but whether that's a good thing in the long run is the question given that mg is likely right about the advisability of a gun in our urban environs.

Short term, living in a big city, I'd have a gun for self-protection. We got bears, you guys got loonies.

Long term? Is the United States' model the way civilized society must inevitably tend?

And thanks to all for their perspective on the OP's question.