On the Nature of Things | Forum

Just saw a scary video. High noon and all the light was deep red. What is going on?

this graphic is a few days old and new huge fires have broken out in the west aswell.

lots of humans ask "why" and look to blaim a politician for the fact that woodland and paddocks burn in times of drought, we live in highly religious times, especially the atheists.

mediocre minds think alike.

last night I read an article that said 9.9 million acres have burned and told myself in the morning I'll post to see how noddy is doing in Hell.

how are you doing personally? hope you are doing well. do you live close to the blazes? I don't recall where you live.

are the religious types blaming climate change or bad local management or some other deity of which I am not aware or all of the above?

I live in the most bushfire prone part, so all winter and autumn is preventitive burning and I live in a cloud of smoke, we have had a few get close over the last few years but touch wood, its all ok for now.

The right blame hippies for not enough preventative burning but in this case the shear size of the problem area left that impossible anyway - you can only control so much burning during winter.

The religious atheists blame climate change and our prime minister for not believing in it but thats hardly related to the consequences of a decade long drought turning the entire country into a tinderbox.

on top of all this is humans live everywhere now, so fires that might have burnt unchecked in the wilderness before are now impacting lots of small commmunities.

there will be no good outcomes to this, its going to empower all sorts of the most noxious kneejerk reactors :/

So where do you live Bro? Are you doing OK at present?

psychological/political fallout will be impressive. those who wield science like a battle-axe rarely let science get in the way of their emotional crusades.

In American terms most of New York down to Florida has large sections of forest and grass plains on fire , while I live in southern california.

We get so many fires, its not news usually, and the scale doesnt get so huge.

Im currently actually looking to move - im on the edge of the rat race and wish to get an extra hour furthur out.

noddy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:45 pm In American terms most of New York down to Florida has large sections of forest and grass plains on fire , while I live in southern california.

We get so many fires, its not news usually, and the scale doesnt get so huge.

Im currently actually looking to move - im on the edge of the rat race and wish to get an extra hour furthur out.

glad to hear you are not in the current hot zone. lots of smaller burns definitely reduce the tendency for big burns. by an hour farther out from the rat race is that farther inland?

noddy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:45 pm In American terms most of New York down to Florida has large sections of forest and grass plains on fire , while I live in southern california.

We get so many fires, its not news usually, and the scale doesnt get so huge.

Im currently actually looking to move - im on the edge of the rat race and wish to get an extra hour furthur out.

Those rats are pretty fast and only getting faster. So you might look into an island.

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:23 pm
Those rats are pretty fast and only getting faster. So you might look into an island.

I live in the western part of australia - the rats have avoided it so far - regularly being over 105F (40c) seems to keep the numbers low.

noddy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:20 am

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:23 pm
Those rats are pretty fast and only getting faster. So you might look into an island.

I live in the western part of australia - the rats have avoided it so far - regularly being over 105F (40c) seems to keep the numbers low.

Don't underestimate them They tend to have air conditioned limosines

we are going to sort that out with a carbon tax, they wont be able to afford to run the aircon.

Interesting post from a Strayan on the Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi forum:


Reports of an "arson emergency" are arrant nonsense. I'm not an arson apologist, by any means, & I'm not suggesting that arson isn't a factor. BUT of the 420,000 fires that NASA satellites have detected in Oz in December, a mere handful are of pyromaniacal origin.

All bullshit aside, it's global warming/climate change that is the REAL culprit here. A few graphs to support my thesis:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... anTodayAUS

As previously stated Oz has been hit with a "perfect storm" of a weak El Nino, failed Indian Oceanic surface temperature oscillation, monsoon failure and very hot & extremely low relative humidity supercells. Soils are super-dry. Fuel has accumulated to dangerous levels in dry Sclerophyllous (Eucalyptus-dominated) forests with their easily vapourised volatile oils and all their fire-propagative characterstics to almost perfectly ignite & spread firestorms.

Candle-bark on tall Eucalypt trees regularly can spread spotfires (literally by the million) over 30 Km downwind. Vapourised eucalyptus oil from radiant heat, superheated & mixed with atmospheric oygen will create "spontaneous" atmospheric fireballs. Hot wildfire will invariably create fire cyclones (I've seen it many times myself in high-intensity forest regeneration burns).

Wildfires of sufficient intensity will of course vapourise not only the fuel oils of the trees themselves, but also any residual water (the major component of all life on earth) into intense convective updrafts that condense (by the Adiabatic Lapse Rate) into monster Pyrocumulus clouds kilometers high that in turn propagate lightning storms (through the electrical potential differential borne of altitude) to further spread the fire front & spark literally millions of new spotfires.

Nothing new here. It's a common characteristic of all large-scale, hot wildfires in situations of heavy fuel load globally. Was first taught this @ Uni in the 70s. It's what happens when 300 million years + of fire propagative Eucalyptus evolution meets unprecedented weather events.

The true tragedy of the current situation is that we may be witnesses to the beginning of a "new summer norm" not just in OZ, but in all heavily forested boreal landscapes around the globe. Truly, the pessimistic prognosis is terrifying. The optimist in me thinks (hopes?) we can learn something from this catastrophe & actually take if not functionally remedial, then at least perhaps some necessarily mitigative steps.

Perhaps, now, at last, we may as a (relatively) civilised society actually take the very real, concrete & terrifyingly devastating consequence of climate inaction seriously.

Sorry chaps. Rant over.

Perhaps, now, at last, we may as a (relatively) civilised society actually take the very real, concrete & terrifyingly devastating consequence of climate inaction seriously.

everyone is saying things like that in my country at the moment.

I dont have the heart to tell them that 30 million idiots paying more tax isnt going to be a drop in the ocean against 8 billion desperate humans wanting more shiznits.

makes me very unpopular in social situations.

you have to admire the bloody minded spirit, the strong belief all problems are fixable and you can just throw money at it, I just wish I could watch it from the outside rather than participate.

droughts happen, heatwaves happen, fires happen, lavender happens - all the atheist religious prayer in the world aint going to change that.

noddy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:41 am

Perhaps, now, at last, we may as a (relatively) civilised society actually take the very real, concrete & terrifyingly devastating consequence of climate inaction seriously.

everyone is saying things like that in my country at the moment.

I dont have the heart to tell them that 30 million idiots paying more tax isnt going to be a drop in the ocean against 8 billion desperate humans wanting more shiznits.

makes me very unpopular in social situations.

you have to admire the bloody minded spirit, the strong belief all problems are fixable and you can just throw money at it, I just wish I could watch it from the outside rather than participate.

droughts happen, heatwaves happen, fires happen, lavender happens - all the atheist religious prayer in the world aint going to change that.

That's why I love ya bro, even if your titties are bigger than mine.

The True Believers are truly dedicated in their stubborn minded persistence, but as some point, you (or at least I) just have to wonder how they manage to ignore reality for so long. In my experience, the primary rule of their club is "If you don't agree with me completely, you are at a minimum rude, and probably much worse." Automatic filtering kicks butt!

the Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi form is a great forum, no politics, etc. allowed. But a few members have strayed. In response I posted JBP's opinion stated on Climate Change stated at Cambridge. My posted stayed up a day or two....

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... CAs&uact=5

If the above post is true, then obviously, eucalyptus trees are the problem. Deforestation to save the environment for the children will Shirely be considered a serious proposal at some point.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:09 pm
If the above post is true, then obviously, eucalyptus trees are the problem. Deforestation to save the environment for the children will Shirely be considered a serious proposal at some point.

yeh, plenty of folks think like that,.

the wild forest having fires in it was normal and natural before, now its small pockets of national park that contain the last batches of wild animals, surrounded by farmland and suburbs and every fire causes extinction and death.

its like people thinking hurricanse are worse now, they arent, the difference was in the old days most of the coastline was empty so most of them never got noticed - now every inch of the world is covered in humans, every hurricane kills people.

their is nothing to fix, we live in huge numbers, we die in huge numbers, we are rodents.

noddy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:25 pm

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:09 pm
If the above post is true, then obviously, eucalyptus trees are the problem. Deforestation to save the environment for the children will Shirely be considered a serious proposal at some point.

yeh, plenty of folks think like that,.

the wild forest having fires in it was normal and natural before, now its small pockets of national park that contain the last batches of wild animals, surrounded by farmland and suburbs and every fire causes extinction and death.

its like people thinking hurricanse are worse now, they arent, the difference was in the old days most of the coastline was empty so most of them never got noticed - now every inch of the world is covered in humans, every hurricane kills people.

their is nothing to fix, we live in huge numbers, we die in huge numbers, we are rodents.

Yep! Fred loves the view from his ocean front home, right up until the ocean is in his living room.

The rodents who promise to save the other rodents from Mother Nature, will always have a large number of paying customers.

We need a nature app for our devices. Something we can turn on and off on a whim.

noddy,

How popular is underground housing in Straya?

I would think the summer temperature alone would make it popular. Added safety and reduced damage costs from wildfires would just be icing on the cake.

Of course the headwinds would be fashion trends in housing and local zoning laws.

Come to think of it, other than a few nature loving "rugged individualists," I've never seen any of the larger green organizations get behind underground housing as a viable, alternative to conventional housing.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:32 pm Yep! Fred loves the view from his ocean front home, right up until the ocean is in his living room.

also the river, never checks why all the houses on the river are so cheap and wonderful, never asks the council what the 10, 50, 100 year flood lines are

the locals just smile.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:32 pm The rodents who promise to save the other rodents from Mother Nature, will always have a large number of paying customers.

its a horribly cynical thought that I try and supress but maintaining the wonderous unique specialness of each of us as a concept is going to be increasingly under pressure from the life is cheap and humans come in the billions concept.

its quite obvious to me, why I am special, but its hardly a world wide viewpoint.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:30 pm noddy,

How popular is underground housing in Straya?

I would think the summer temperature alone would make it popular. Added safety and reduced damage costs from wildfires would just be icing on the cake.

Of course the headwinds would be fashion trends in housing and local zoning laws.

Come to think of it, other than a few nature loving "rugged individualists," I've never seen any of the larger green organizations get behind underground housing as a viable, alternative to conventional housing.

one town has made a name for itself for doing so.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/u ... 180958162/

the rest, not at all, cellars are just for rich folk to stash their wine collections.

maybe in the future it might take off, it does add lots of costs and problems - keeping moisture out, living in permenant darkness without light, etc.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:23 pm Interesting post from a Strayan on the Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi forum:


Reports of an "arson emergency" are arrant nonsense. I'm not an arson apologist, by any means, & I'm not suggesting that arson isn't a factor. BUT of the 420,000 fires that NASA satellites have detected in Oz in December, a mere handful are of pyromaniacal origin.

All bullshit aside, it's global warming/climate change that is the REAL culprit here. A few graphs to support my thesis:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... anTodayAUS

Another perspective

Are Australia Bushfires Worsening from Human-Caused Climate Change?[url]

A bushfire map is a bit more of a complex issue

6 things to ask yourself before you share a bushfire map on social media
Digital Earth Aussie Hotspots

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:23 pm As previously stated Oz has been hit with a "perfect storm" of a weak El Nino, failed Indian Oceanic surface temperature oscillation, monsoon failure and very hot & extremely low relative humidity supercells. Soils are super-dry. Fuel has accumulated to dangerous levels in dry Sclerophyllous (Eucalyptus-dominated) forests with their easily vapourised volatile oils and all their fire-propagative characterstics to almost perfectly ignite & spread firestorms.

Candle-bark on tall Eucalypt trees regularly can spread spotfires (literally by the million) over 30 Km downwind. Vapourised eucalyptus oil from radiant heat, superheated & mixed with atmospheric oygen will create "spontaneous" atmospheric fireballs. Hot wildfire will invariably create fire cyclones (I've seen it many times myself in high-intensity forest regeneration burns).

Wildfires of sufficient intensity will of course vapourise not only the fuel oils of the trees themselves, but also any residual water (the major component of all life on earth) into intense convective updrafts that condense (by the Adiabatic Lapse Rate) into monster Pyrocumulus clouds kilometers high that in turn propagate lightning storms (through the electrical potential differential borne of altitude) to further spread the fire front & spark literally millions of new spotfires.

Nothing new here. It's a common characteristic of all large-scale, hot wildfires in situations of heavy fuel load globally. Was first taught this @ Uni in the 70s. It's what happens when 300 million years + of fire propagative Eucalyptus evolution meets unprecedented weather events.

The true tragedy of the current situation is that we may be witnesses to the beginning of a "new summer norm" not just in OZ, but in all heavily forested boreal landscapes around the globe. Truly, the pessimistic prognosis is terrifying. The optimist in me thinks (hopes?) we can learn something from this catastrophe & actually take if not functionally remedial, then at least perhaps some necessarily mitigative steps.

Perhaps, now, at last, we may as a (relatively) civilised society actually take the very real, concrete & terrifyingly devastating consequence of climate inaction seriously.

Sorry chaps. Rant over.

The eucalyptus trees are an interesting point.

However, let's assume for the sake of argument that man-made global warming is at fault.
Australia would have to bite the hand that feeds it.

noddy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:38 pm
one town has made a name for itself for doing so.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/u ... 180958162/

the rest, not at all, cellars are just for rich folk to stash their wine collections.

maybe in the future it might take off, it does add lots of costs and problems - keeping moisture out, living in permenant darkness without light, etc.

Thanks for posting very interesting.

My lack of mastery of language misled you, I meant Earth Sheltered Housing (1/2-3/4 underground) not true underground housing. "Dug outs" in Strine terms?

I always thought that if I built a house, that is what it would be. Low initial cost, low heat/cooling costs, no moisture/ventilation if done properly. lack of resale value may obliterate all upfront cost savings however. Culture/fashion is housing is as strong as it it anywhere else.

Topography obviously plays a huge deciding factor.

only in rural places with cashed up retirees.

https://inhabitat.com/this-earth-shelte ... -all-year/

their would be but a handful of them in the entire country, suburbia is cookie cutter, value maintaining, strictly regulated , shitholes.

noddy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm only in rural places with cashed up retirees.

https://inhabitat.com/this-earth-shelte ... -all-year/

their would be but a handful of them in the entire country, suburbia is cookie cutter, value maintaining, strictly regulated , shitholes.

Well, of course you can't save everyone.....

Do you guys have national building standards over there? Over here many building standards are determined locally. There are of course industry accepted minimums.

Simple Minded wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:32 pm
Do you guys have national building standards over there? Over here many building standards are determined locally. There are of course industry accepted minimums.

well, the furthur you get from suburbia the lower the standards get, or atleast, the less the local authorities will enforce them.

this means you need to be able to afford a large property, away from the rat race, and not worry about income.

that restricts it to cashed up retiree's and millionaires holiday homes.