Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Hoosiernorm
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Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... asia-units
A controversial system of mobile euthanasia units that will travel around the country to respond to the wishes of sick people who wish to end their lives has been launched in the Netherlands.

The scheme, which started on Thursday , will send teams of specially trained doctors and nurses to the homes of people whose own doctors have refused to carry out patients' requests to end their lives.

The launch of the so-called Levenseinde, or "Life End", house-call units – whose services are being offered to Dutch citizens free of charge – coincides with the opening of a clinic of the same name in The Hague, which will take patients with incurable illnesses as well as others who do not want to die at home.

The scheme is an initiative by the Dutch Association for a Voluntary End to Life (NVVE), a 130,000-member euthanasia organisation that is the biggest of its kind in the world.

"From Thursday, the Life End clinic will have mobile teams where people who believe they are eligible for euthanasia can register," Walburg de Jong, a NVVE spokesman, said.

"If they do comply, the teams will be able to carry out the euthanasia at patients' homes should their regular doctors be unable or refuse to help them," he added.

The Netherlands was the first country to legalise euthanasia in 2002 and its legislation on the right to die is considered to be the most liberal in the world.

But doctors cannot be forced to comply with the wishes of patients who request the right to die and many do refuse, which was what prompted NVVE to develop a system to fill the gap.

Sick people or their relatives can submit their applications via telephone or email and if the patient's request fulfils a number of strict criteria, the team is then dispatched.

Legal guidelines state that the person must be incurably sick, be suffering unbearable pain and have expressed the wish to die voluntarily, clearly and on several occasions.

According to De Jong, the team will make contact with the doctor who has refused to help the patient to die and ask what his or her reasons were.

More often than not, he said, the motivations are religious or ethical, adding that sometimes doctors were simply not well enough informed about the law.

If the team is satisfied that the patient's motives are genuine, they will contact another doctor with whom they will start the euthanasia process.

"They will first give the patient an injection, which will put them into a deep sleep, then a second injection follows, which will stop their breathing and heart beat," De Jong said.

Every year 2,300 to 3,100 mercy killings are carried out in the Netherlands, although opponents of the practice claim the figure is much higher because many cases are not registered. The Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) supports euthanasia in principle if there is no alternative, but has distanced itself from the NVVE initiative, arguing that giving it the name Life End will foster the idea that it is for those who it said are simply "weary of life" rather than those who are sick.

It has also questioned whether Life End doctors will have the chance to forge the necessary relationship with a patient to be able to ascertain whether or not his or her life should be ended.

But Jan Kuyper, of the Life End Clinic Foundation, said: "We're not trying to push any boundaries here." He said it was quite possible that the mobile teams would not end up carrying out a mercy killing, either due to medical questions about the case or if doubt is cast on the patient's motives.

Little is known about the Life End teams. But one of the team leaders is believed to be a 67-year-old retired doctor who carried out 20 mercy killings during his medical career.

The teams would be limited to one house visit a week to minimise the psychological burden on them.

In neighbouring Germany, where mercy killings are strictly illegal, euthanasia opponents were particularly vocal in expressing their outrage at the developments. "This is an inhumane proposal," said the German Hospice Foundation, while the group Life Rights for Everyone called it a "warped understanding of [the meaning of] autonomy".
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

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What great news. It has never been a better time to be a US right winger, all of our opposition is self annihilating!
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

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Mr. Perfect wrote:What great news. It has never been a better time to be a US right winger, all of our opposition is self annihilating!
One of the reasons the US pays about twice as much for healthcare as the rest of the industrialized world yet receives less on average is that
so much time and money is spent in attempting to prolong the last days, weeks, and months of life.

How medical doctors choose to die having no illusions, ideological or other, regarding the nature of death or the limits of modern medicine.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Waitaminnit. So Europe does not pay to prolong the lives of their seniors? Euthanasia is a widespread European practice? Admittedly, I did not now that.

Not that I mind. If they want to put their people in the ground as fast as possible I certainly won't stop them.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Enki »

If someone wants to die, they should be allowed to.

This becomes increasingly important as life extension technology becomes available.

Mr. Perfect continues to believe that the past is the future.

The Euthanasia argument exists at all precisely because people are routinely living so long.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by monster_gardener »

Typhoon wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:What great news. It has never been a better time to be a US right winger, all of our opposition is self annihilating!
One of the reasons the US pays about twice as much for healthcare as the rest of the industrialized world yet receives less on average is that
so much time and money is spent in attempting to prolong the last days, weeks, and months of life.

How medical doctors choose to die having no illusions, ideological or other, regarding the nature of death or the limits of modern medicine.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Typhoon.

Worthwhile article........ Something to consider.......

AIUI one part of the problem is that we in the US have such a fixation on not becoming addicts....... Doctors don't dispense high enough doses to the terminal and some good pain/anxiety relievers are still forbidden...... Heroin......... Marijuana in most places......

Glad to hear that it can be low cost........ One argument against euthanasia is that pressure will be put on the elderly not be a burden..... but if all that is needed to live out life fully to a natural end is low cost pain killers......
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Enki wrote:If someone wants to die, they should be allowed to.

This becomes increasingly important as life extension technology becomes available.

Mr. Perfect continues to believe that the past is the future.

The Euthanasia argument exists at all precisely because people are routinely living so long.
I think you misunderstand me totally. If left wing nations want to thin their numbers, dramatically even, I'm all for it.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Enki »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Enki wrote:If someone wants to die, they should be allowed to.

This becomes increasingly important as life extension technology becomes available.

Mr. Perfect continues to believe that the past is the future.

The Euthanasia argument exists at all precisely because people are routinely living so long.
I think you misunderstand me totally. If left wing nations want to thin their numbers, dramatically even, I'm all for it.
I think the cultural differences between nations are more distinct and meaningful than the cultural differences between parties intranationally.

But thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Enki wrote:If someone wants to die, they should be allowed to.

This becomes increasingly important as life extension technology becomes available.

Mr. Perfect continues to believe that the past is the future.

The Euthanasia argument exists at all precisely because people are routinely living so long.
I think you misunderstand me totally. If left wing nations want to thin their numbers, dramatically even, I'm all for it.
Holland is a "left wing" nation?

Public debt as % of GDP

United States: 102%

Holland: 64.5%
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

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It's the shoes. Those genuflecting clogs. They turn me into a commie homo every time I put on my Crocs.

And I love my Crocs. My gay homosexual commie Crocs.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Azrael »

monster_gardner: In the UK, heroin is generally used as an analgesic by doctors and hospitals rather than morphine because it is quicker acting and has less side effects.

I thought of a great idea for a prank. You know how since time immemorial teenagers have been prank calling pizza shops to fool them in to delivering to the wrong house . . .
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Hoosiernorm »

I'm wondering if it's a profit driven company? What are it's motives?
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Heroin can be a heroine for pain relief & Limbaugh pranks

Post by monster_gardener »

Azrael wrote:monster_gardner: In the UK, heroin is generally used as an analgesic by doctors and hospitals rather than morphine because it is quicker acting and has less side effects.

I thought of a great idea for a prank. You know how since time immemorial teenagers have been prank calling pizza shops to fool them in to delivering to the wrong house . . .

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azrael.
heroin is generally used as an analgesic by doctors and hospitals rather than morphine because it is quicker acting
That is what I was thinking about......... When there is pain........ fast acting is VERY good.......

Thanks again.....
I thought of a great idea for a prank. You know how since time immemorial teenagers have been prank calling pizza shops to fool them in to delivering to the wrong house . . .
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Reminds me of some of the pranks Rush the Limbo Dancer :wink: & his brother claim to have done when young...........

Called old folks with a fake Bible quiz ....... then sent winners to IIRC a Christian Radio Station or Church to get their fictitious prize :shock: :lol:
Last edited by monster_gardener on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Simple Minded »

Hoosiernorm wrote:Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... asia-units
I can get onboard with this.... errr I mean I support having euthanasia as a legal option completely.

At some point there is no quality of life left..... so why continue?
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Simple Minded wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... asia-units
I can get onboard with this.... errr I mean I support having euthanasia as a legal option completely.

At some point there is no quality of life left..... so why continue?
The answer is that at some point that day will come for everyone, why not just jump off a bridge tomorrow. What is the criteria to separate those who simply suffer from mental illness and want to die largely for psychological reasons. What about those who would chose to end there lives after a natural disaster? Whoa the house is gone and the village is a mess, time to go down to the death bus so I don't have to deal with all of this. There are a lot of factors here besides dying, we are all going to die at some point so that in itself is not an issue.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Typhoon »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... asia-units
I can get onboard with this.... errr I mean I support having euthanasia as a legal option completely.

At some point there is no quality of life left..... so why continue?
The answer is that at some point that day will come for everyone, why not just jump off a bridge tomorrow.
If life is bearable, then there is no good reason to do so. Knowing that one will die some day is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition.
Hoosiernorm wrote:What is the criteria to separate those who simply suffer from mental illness and want to die largely for psychological reasons. What about those who would chose to end there lives after a natural disaster? Whoa the house is gone and the village is a mess, time to go down to the death bus so I don't have to deal with all of this. There are a lot of factors here besides dying, we are all going to die at some point so that in itself is not an issue.
From the article:
Legal guidelines state that the person must be incurably sick, be suffering unbearable pain and have expressed the wish to die voluntarily, clearly and on several occasions.
I would argue that prolonging suffering in such situations, using current medicine, when there is no possibility of a cure could be considered a very cruel and unusual form of torture especially as it is inflicted at the end of life.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Ibrahim »

Hoosiernorm wrote:I'm wondering if it's a profit driven company? What are it's motives?
Like all of Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. the Dutch have a state healthcare system. It is not a "for profit company," but a service offered by the medical system to terminally ill citizens who have elected to die in their homes rather than a hospital.


Generally speaking and not directed at anyone, I can never understand why American conservatives are so opposed to euthanasia. I understand it less than opposition to abortion or support for the death penalty. What is so important about preventing some 84 year old woman wracked by agony from stomach cancer from electing to die a few weeks or months early to escape pain completely escapes me.
Simple Minded

Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Simple Minded »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... asia-units
I can get onboard with this.... errr I mean I support having euthanasia as a legal option completely.

At some point there is no quality of life left..... so why continue?
The answer is that at some point that day will come for everyone, why not just jump off a bridge tomorrow. What is the criteria to separate those who simply suffer from mental illness and want to die largely for psychological reasons. What about those who would chose to end there lives after a natural disaster? Whoa the house is gone and the village is a mess, time to go down to the death bus so I don't have to deal with all of this. There are a lot of factors here besides dying, we are all going to die at some point so that in itself is not an issue.
The point I was making was that suicide should be a medically supervised option to be chosen by the individual. All criteria is self-determined and self-evaluated. Why are there laws that declare suicide to be illegal? Will a person who has decided they have nothing left to live for really be deterred by threat of punishment?
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Typhoon »

After rereading the article, I would argue that the Dutch euthanasia project for the terminally ill is rather far removed from what some imagine it to be . . .

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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Azrael »

Hoosiernorm wrote:I'm wondering if it's a profit driven company?
Not particularly likely. There wouldn't be much repeat business.
What are it's motives?
The stated motives are to allow people to exercise their rights.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Azrael »

Typhoon wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Enki wrote:If someone wants to die, they should be allowed to.

This becomes increasingly important as life extension technology becomes available.

Mr. Perfect continues to believe that the past is the future.

The Euthanasia argument exists at all precisely because people are routinely living so long.
I think you misunderstand me totally. If left wing nations want to thin their numbers, dramatically even, I'm all for it.
Holland is a "left wing" nation?

Public debt as % of GDP

United States: 102%

Holland: 64.5%
"left wing": anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Azrael »

Ibrahim wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:I'm wondering if it's a profit driven company? What are it's motives?
Like all of Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. the Dutch have a state healthcare system. It is not a "for profit company," but a service offered by the medical system to terminally ill citizens who have elected to die in their homes rather than a hospital.
[Edit: removed stupid joke.]

Generally speaking and not directed at anyone, I can never understand why American conservatives are so opposed to euthanasia. I understand it less than opposition to abortion or support for the death penalty. What is so important about preventing some 84 year old woman wracked by agony from stomach cancer from electing to die a few weeks or months early to escape pain completely escapes me.
There's a lot of money to be made extending the last agonies of life at great expense. Special interests generally get their way in our system.
Last edited by Azrael on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Typhoon »

Azrael wrote:
Generally speaking and not directed at anyone, I can never understand why American conservatives are so opposed to euthanasia. I understand it less than opposition to abortion or support for the death penalty. What is so important about preventing some 84 year old woman wracked by agony from stomach cancer from electing to die a few weeks or months early to escape pain completely escapes me.
There's a lot of money to be made extending the last agonies of life at great expense. Special interests generally get their way in our system.
That may be part of it. Another is probably the fear of litigation - being sued for not having tried everything to prolong life, even if in reality any such extension may have been only for a few days.
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Typhoon wrote: Holland is a "left wing" nation?
Is it a right wing nation?
Public debt as % of GDP

United States: 102%

Holland: 64.5%
Well we did elect a boat load of Democrats in 2008. Still recovering.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Dutch mobile euthanasia units to make house calls

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Ibrahim wrote: Generally speaking and not directed at anyone, I can never understand why American conservatives are so opposed to euthanasia. I understand it less than opposition to abortion or support for the death penalty. What is so important about preventing some 84 year old woman wracked by agony from stomach cancer from electing to die a few weeks or months early to escape pain completely escapes me.
It's not American conservatives, it is nearly all Americans. There is no real euthanasia movement in America, right, left or center.

However, I am all for a leftist euthanasia movement, I hope they all continue to encourage it amongst themselves.
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