Germany's gold - Doubts emerge

Post Reply
User avatar
Alexis
Posts: 1305
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:47 pm

Germany's gold - Doubts emerge

Post by Alexis »

Germans Fret about Their Foreign Gold Reserves
A large portion of Germany's massive gold reserves are stored abroad, mainly in the Federal Reserve in New York. But are the bars really where they are supposed to be? A dispute has broken out over whether the central bank needs to check on its gold, or if Germany can trust its international partners.

Germany has gold reserves of just under 3,400 tons, the second-largest reserves in the world after the United States. Much of that is in the safekeeping of central banks outside Germany, especially in the US Federal Reserve in New York.
(...)
According to German media reports, the Bundesrechnungshof has now recommended in its confidential annual audit of the Bundesbank for 2011 that Germany's central bank check its foreign gold reserves with yearly spot checks.
The Bundesbank has rejected the demand, arguing that central banks do not usually check each others' reserves.
(...)
In times of uncertainty about the future of Europe's common currency, gold is a hot topic, and some Germans take a dim view of the fact that much of the country's gold -- which theoretically belongs to the people -- is held abroad. Some members of parliament have even expressed doubts as to whether the foreign gold reserves really exist. Philipp Missfelder, a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), wanted to see the gold for himself and traveled to New York in person to inspect the holdings, according to the newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau. His trip was apparently unsuccessful, though. When he visited the Fed's safes in New York, staff were either unable or unwilling to show him exactly which bars belonged to Germany.
(...)
Gauweiler doubts that the Bundesbank would have immediate access to all its gold if necessary, suggesting that part of the gold may have even been lent out -- a claim that the Bundesbank rejects.
(...)
The initiative alleges that there is an "acute" danger that the German gold could be expropriated as a result of the financial and debt crisis. They argue that the German government could soon be forced to sell gold to cover the costs of the crisis.
But the Bundesbank wants to leave the gold where it is. Observers point out that apart from the high cost of transporting the gold back to Frankfurt, the symbolic effect of Germany repatriating its gold reserves might unsettle the nervous financial markets, who could see it as a sign of an impending collapse of the euro.
Like the Russian proverb says: Доверяй, но проверяй... Trust, but verify!

The simplest way for the Bundesbank to allay fears and doubts regarding the effective availability of physical gold that Germany entrusted to the US Federal Reserve... is to organize an independent audit of those gold reserves, with journalists on board. (*)

If the Bundesbank is in a position to do so, that is.



(*) Possibly not coincidentally, in those times when Germany and other nations which entrusted the bulk of their gold reserves to the US Federal Reserve display signs of nervosity that everything is in order, the Banque de France which holds the totality of French gold reserves recently (March 2012) opened up their bunker to journalists and demonstrated the protection and the existence of the Paris-located gold reserves. A discreet message...
User avatar
Marcus
Posts: 2409
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:23 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by Marcus »

I'll be watching the price of gold after reading this . . :?
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
—John Calvin
AzariLoveIran

Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Alexis wrote:.

Germans Fret about Their Foreign Gold Reserves
A large portion of Germany's massive gold reserves are stored abroad, mainly in the Federal Reserve in New York. But are the bars really where they are supposed to be? A dispute has broken out over whether the central bank needs to check on its gold, or if Germany can trust its international partners.

Germany has gold reserves of just under 3,400 tons, the second-largest reserves in the world after the United States. Much of that is in the safekeeping of central banks outside Germany, especially in the US Federal Reserve in New York.
(...)
According to German media reports, the Bundesrechnungshof has now recommended in its confidential annual audit of the Bundesbank for 2011 that Germany's central bank check its foreign gold reserves with yearly spot checks.
The Bundesbank has rejected the demand, arguing that central banks do not usually check each others' reserves.
(...)
In times of uncertainty about the future of Europe's common currency, gold is a hot topic, and some Germans take a dim view of the fact that much of the country's gold -- which theoretically belongs to the people -- is held abroad. Some members of parliament have even expressed doubts as to whether the foreign gold reserves really exist. Philipp Missfelder, a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), wanted to see the gold for himself and traveled to New York in person to inspect the holdings, according to the newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau. His trip was apparently unsuccessful, though. When he visited the Fed's safes in New York, staff were either unable or unwilling to show him exactly which bars belonged to Germany.
(...)
Gauweiler doubts that the Bundesbank would have immediate access to all its gold if necessary, suggesting that part of the gold may have even been lent out -- a claim that the Bundesbank rejects.
(...)
The initiative alleges that there is an "acute" danger that the German gold could be expropriated as a result of the financial and debt crisis. They argue that the German government could soon be forced to sell gold to cover the costs of the crisis.
But the Bundesbank wants to leave the gold where it is. Observers point out that apart from the high cost of transporting the gold back to Frankfurt, the symbolic effect of Germany repatriating its gold reserves might unsettle the nervous financial markets, who could see it as a sign of an impending collapse of the euro.
Like the Russian proverb says: Доверяй, но проверяй... Trust, but verify!

The simplest way for the Bundesbank to allay fears and doubts regarding the effective availability of physical gold that Germany entrusted to the US Federal Reserve... is to organize an independent audit of those gold reserves, with journalists on board. (*)

If the Bundesbank is in a position to do so, that is.



(*) Possibly not coincidentally, in those times when Germany and other nations which entrusted the bulk of their gold reserves to the US Federal Reserve display signs of nervosity that everything is in order, the Banque de France which holds the totality of French gold reserves recently (March 2012) opened up their bunker to journalists and demonstrated the protection and the existence of the Paris-located gold reserves. A discreet message...

.

" 1 m3 of gold has a mass of 19.3 tonnes "

3,400 tons (Gold) makes 176 M3

does not take much space .. 7.65 x 7.65 and 3 meters high .. not even a small room full

why should Germany have it's Gold in America ? ?

Many German enterprises were confiscated in America of that time, not long ago

and

America has usurped Billions of $$$ Iranian money .. money that Iran got selling Oil for 5 $ per barrel

many nations have usurped other assets & nation's Gold

Russians usurped Spanish Gold Franco time

West has usurped now Trillion $ Libyan assets, including Gold

Germany not only should check on German Gold with FED, but haul it back to Germany

Charles De Gaulle did it


.
User avatar
Enki
Posts: 5052
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by Enki »

Yes, this was an issue when Tunisia went the way it did because the Tunisian gold is held in America.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
AzariLoveIran

Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Enki wrote:.

Yes, this was an issue when Tunisia went the way it did because the Tunisian gold is held in America.

.

Now lots of rubbish is thrown around in America

every day some Jewish guy suing Swiss banks or insurance they holding his grandfather's money or insurance payment, suing in American courts, all rubbish, blackmail .. or American treasury suing Swiss banks for tax this and that

or

Zionist charlatans and crooks suing Iran for rubbish trying to confiscate archeological stuff in loan to University of Chicago since 1940

America is not a safe place for sovereign nations to hold anything .. Gold, Money, art, arms already paid, real estate and and and

American courts have their own logic and so does American government and congress and senate, their own logic, moral and ethics

safe and better not be involved to get sorry later on

so

Herr Bundesrepublik Deutschland, take your Gold home, you sleep better



.
User avatar
Enki
Posts: 5052
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by Enki »

No doubt the American acquisition of German gold was some kind of gentleman's agreement based upon the US refusing to give back confiscated 'Nazi' gold. We were more than willing to give them the notes however.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11854
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Germany's gold - Doubts emerge

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Germany to repatriate gold; less trust in Fed


Germany’s Handeslblatt newspaper claimed Monday night that the Bundesbank has developed a new strategy that involves fewer gold bars flung afar. It seems the original reason for holding its gold at the New York Federal Reserve and other central banks — in places for decades as a measure of security — no longer holds up. The central bank’s press office said a news conference is planned for Wednesday morning, and the topic will be gold reserves.

Hmmm


.
User avatar
monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Dental Gold.... Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by monster_gardener »

Enki wrote:No doubt the American acquisition of German gold was some kind of gentleman's agreement based upon the US refusing to give back confiscated 'Nazi' gold. We were more than willing to give them the notes however.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Tinker.

I suspect you are right.......

IIRC during WW2 besides artwork, Germany confiscated a lot of gold from conquered countries....*


And from individuals..........

Including Dental Gold......... :twisted: :evil:

From Extermination Camps.........

Remembering a book about how the German leadership ;) :twisted: bought peace on the homefront by looting Europe.......

Looting got VERY BAD as German soldiers bought up everything in stores down to eggs and butter even in German allied countries and took it home on leave......

So bad that the German Diplomatic Corps protested to the High Cowboys at the OKW Corral ;) :twisted: oops I mean High Command at OKW that it was making the natives restless..

IIRC Goebbels told the diplomats to suck it up as it was more important to keep the natives at home happy.........

When the Allies finally reached Germany at the end of the War, they noted how much healthier and even fatter the Germans were than people in the occupied nations were....

Naturally some of the victims, especially the Russians, took their revenge.....

Even we Uz got involved..... Did some "Patent Searching" ;) ..........

And recruited some "Rocket Scientists"......

But the Germans got off darned lucky because of the Cold War......

Both sides decided they needed them as a buffer....

There had been plans to deindustrialize and pastoralize the Germans to make sure they didn't get IrreDental ;) and try for more Dental Gold :twisted:

Even as it was...

The purpose of NATO is/was

To Keep the Russians Out
To Keep the Americans In
To Keep the Germans Down........


*For some reason I'm thinking about Greece in particular.........

Not a great link but I don't have time for more right now.........

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/ ... occupiers/
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11854
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Dental Gold.... Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Enki wrote:No doubt the American acquisition of German gold was some kind of gentleman's agreement based upon the US refusing to give back confiscated 'Nazi' gold. We were more than willing to give them the notes however.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Tinker.

I suspect you are right.......

IIRC during WW2 besides artwork, Germany confiscated a lot of gold from conquered countries....*


And from individuals..........

Including Dental Gold......... :twisted: :evil:

From Extermination Camps.........

Remembering a book about how the German leadership ;) :twisted: bought peace on the homefront by looting Europe.......

Looting got VERY BAD as German soldiers bought up everything in stores down to eggs and butter even in German allied countries and took it home on leave......

So bad that the German Diplomatic Corps protested to the High Cowboys at the OKW Corral ;) :twisted: oops I mean High Command at OKW that it was making the natives restless..

IIRC Goebbels told the diplomats to suck it up as it was more important to keep the natives at home happy.........

When the Allies finally reached Germany at the end of the War, they noted how much healthier and even fatter the Germans were than people in the occupied nations were....

Naturally some of the victims, especially the Russians, took their revenge.....

Even we Uz got involved..... Did some "Patent Searching" ;) ..........

And recruited some "Rocket Scientists"......

But the Germans got off darned lucky because of the Cold War......

Both sides decided they needed them as a buffer....

There had been plans to deindustrialize and pastoralize the Germans to make sure they didn't get IrreDental ;) and try for more Dental Gold :twisted:

Even as it was...

The purpose of NATO is/was

To Keep the Russians Out
To Keep the Americans In
To Keep the Germans Down........


*For some reason I'm thinking about Greece in particular.........

Not a great link but I don't have time for more right now.........

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/ ... occupiers/


.


Come on, Monster, come on

That is standard procedure for America to usurp other people's assets for phoney reason .. America built on slave labor and other people's money and blood

poor Angela

this time, no horsing around, better be safe than sorry


Bringing in the bullion: Germany to repatriate gold from US and France

The move follows an audit criticizing Bundesbank for mismanagement, stating the funds had never been “verified physically.”

Bundesbank voiced plans to withdraw its entire 450-ton store of gold bullion from the Bank of France in Paris, and a portion of the 1,500 tons currently held by the New York Federal Reserve, Handelsblatt reported.

The German government refrained from commenting on the reports ahead of its presentation of a new plan for the management of its gold reserves on Wednesday. Germany boasts the world’s second-largest bullion reserves at 270,000 gold bars ($177.5 billion), second only to the US.

Germany’s gold stockpile was relocated abroad during the Cold War amid fears of a possible Soviet invasion. There is no reason now to maintain overseas stockpiles, Bundesbank said – from now on, the bank will only keep small amounts of gold abroad for trading purposes.
About 30 percent of Germany’s gold reserves are currently being held in the country at the facilities of Frankfurt-based Bundesbank.

The move follows a damning report by the German Court of Auditors criticizing the management of Bundesbank’s foreign bullion stockpiles. Auditors said that the stores “had never been verified physically,” and were not under proper control.

Bundesbank was taken aback by the criticism, stressing there was no need for speculation on Germany’s overseas holdings and that "there is no doubt about the integrity of the foreign storage sites." The central bank is widely regarded as one of the most trustworthy institutions in German society.

Veteran gold dealer Jim Sinclair said that Bundesbank’s strategy marked a change in trends in the global gold market, heralding a move away from paper administration of funds.

"This sends a message about storing gold near you and taking delivery no matter who is holding it,” Sinclair told British newspaper the Telegraph. “When France did these years ago it sent panic amongst the US financial leadership. History will look back on this salvo as being the beginning of the end of the US dollar as the reserve currency of choice.”

Chavez too brought all Gold back home

America, France, Italy and and and .. all broke, living with other people's money

and

FYI , Iran starting selling Oil & Gas only for Gold, no Dollars no Euros



.
User avatar
monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Re: Dental Gold.... Re: Germany's gold -Doubts emerge

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Enki wrote:No doubt the American acquisition of German gold was some kind of gentleman's agreement based upon the US refusing to give back confiscated 'Nazi' gold. We were more than willing to give them the notes however.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Tinker.

I suspect you are right.......

IIRC during WW2 besides artwork, Germany confiscated a lot of gold from conquered countries....*


And from individuals..........

Including Dental Gold......... :twisted: :evil:

From Extermination Camps.........

Remembering a book about how the German leadership ;) :twisted: bought peace on the homefront by looting Europe.......

Looting got VERY BAD as German soldiers bought up everything in stores down to eggs and butter even in German allied countries and took it home on leave......

So bad that the German Diplomatic Corps protested to the High Cowboys at the OKW Corral ;) :twisted: oops I mean High Command at OKW that it was making the natives restless..

IIRC Goebbels told the diplomats to suck it up as it was more important to keep the natives at home happy.........

When the Allies finally reached Germany at the end of the War, they noted how much healthier and even fatter the Germans were than people in the occupied nations were....

Naturally some of the victims, especially the Russians, took their revenge.....

Even we Uz got involved..... Did some "Patent Searching" ;) ..........

And recruited some "Rocket Scientists"......

But the Germans got off darned lucky because of the Cold War......

Both sides decided they needed them as a buffer....

There had been plans to deindustrialize and pastoralize the Germans to make sure they didn't get IrreDental ;) and try for more Dental Gold :twisted:

Even as it was...

The purpose of NATO is/was

To Keep the Russians Out
To Keep the Americans In
To Keep the Germans Down........


*For some reason I'm thinking about Greece in particular.........

Not a great link but I don't have time for more right now.........

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/ ... occupiers/


.


Come on, Monster, come on

That is standard procedure for America to usurp other people's assets for phoney reason .. America built on slave labor and other people's money and blood

poor Angela

this time, no horsing around, better be safe than sorry


Bringing in the bullion: Germany to repatriate gold from US and France

The move follows an audit criticizing Bundesbank for mismanagement, stating the funds had never been “verified physically.”

Bundesbank voiced plans to withdraw its entire 450-ton store of gold bullion from the Bank of France in Paris, and a portion of the 1,500 tons currently held by the New York Federal Reserve, Handelsblatt reported.

The German government refrained from commenting on the reports ahead of its presentation of a new plan for the management of its gold reserves on Wednesday. Germany boasts the world’s second-largest bullion reserves at 270,000 gold bars ($177.5 billion), second only to the US.

Germany’s gold stockpile was relocated abroad during the Cold War amid fears of a possible Soviet invasion. There is no reason now to maintain overseas stockpiles, Bundesbank said – from now on, the bank will only keep small amounts of gold abroad for trading purposes.
About 30 percent of Germany’s gold reserves are currently being held in the country at the facilities of Frankfurt-based Bundesbank.

The move follows a damning report by the German Court of Auditors criticizing the management of Bundesbank’s foreign bullion stockpiles. Auditors said that the stores “had never been verified physically,” and were not under proper control.

Bundesbank was taken aback by the criticism, stressing there was no need for speculation on Germany’s overseas holdings and that "there is no doubt about the integrity of the foreign storage sites." The central bank is widely regarded as one of the most trustworthy institutions in German society.

Veteran gold dealer Jim Sinclair said that Bundesbank’s strategy marked a change in trends in the global gold market, heralding a move away from paper administration of funds.

"This sends a message about storing gold near you and taking delivery no matter who is holding it,” Sinclair told British newspaper the Telegraph. “When France did these years ago it sent panic amongst the US financial leadership. History will look back on this salvo as being the beginning of the end of the US dollar as the reserve currency of choice.”

Chavez too brought all Gold back home

America, France, Italy and and and .. all broke, living with other people's money

and

FYI , Iran starting selling Oil & Gas only for Gold, no Dollars no Euros



.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
That is standard procedure for America to usurp other people's assets for phoney reason ..
Again, the Germans were lucky to be Allowed Any ASSets ;) After the Abominable way they Acted in WW2 ........

Alse noting that After World War 2, Germans fled west into the American, British & French Zones rather than toward the Russian One.......

America built on slave labor and other people's money and blood
What culture fought the worst war of its history in the 1860s to be rid of slavery......
Hint: It's Uz ;)

What culture was still slaving into the 1960s and is still caught doing it......
Hint: They think they are the Best of People and pray 5 times times a day and are control freaks who want to conquer the world for Allah.......
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Post Reply