Postmodernism and Critical Theory. Or why the Empress has no clothes.

[noddy]

came out of the closet as a movement of the sheltered middle class for the sheltered middle class, dropping all pretense for the icky smelly sub working class types, except a vague hope for the percentage of their children which can be converted to the higher cause.

[Parodite]

Hard to sit out this video, but a nice ride into a frontal lobed day dreaming nightmare of 3rd-wave feminists. Once bullied, or maybe still.. as lesbian women who were different, expelled.. or just women feeling threatened. Time to bully the male arche-typical chauvinist male pig bully Donald Trump and stop him! An unhappy room. With a bewildered male here and there trying to fit in. Not sure they found the best solution for their problems.

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[Mr. Perfect]

A lot of mental illness in that room.

[Mr. Perfect]

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[Ibrahim]

The world of alt-right YouTubers has created its own cargo cult version of academia, with its own definitions for previously accepted and understood terms, and which references itself constantly, creating this internally sustaining miniature version of academia but with its own pet version of history and terminology.

Furthermore, the correct history and definitions of these terms was mostly the domain of philosophy professors and social scientists, who almost everybody now seems to agree are useless parasites on the productive members of society like coal miners and hedge fund managers, and should be ignored of not destroyed. So this cargo cult academia has more popular currency than real academia.

Bad luck for me I took a bunch of philosophy courses as electives back when I was pre-law, and this was also in the pre-PowerPoint days when you had to pay attention in class, so when I see alt-right people or Joe Rogan fans talking about "postmodernism" or "cultural marxism" it all sounds like stupid gibberish. But it doesn't matter insofar these people don't care what the actual history or definitions are, and it doesn't matter for their political purposes anyway.

Its all a bit like how it is now accepted usage to say "literally" when you mean the opposite of "literally." Language is a living thing, etc. and so on.

[Mr. Perfect]

Other than a flat footed attempt to conflate Joe Rogan with alt righters I'm not sure there is a verifiable claim in there.

But speaking of word games, here is a fun one:

Sometime in the 1980's ( as opposed to the 1880's or 1780's) somebody invented the word homophobia (later on islamaphobia, and being more recently invented the same principle will apply yet we won't need to perform the same exercise) and nobody asked me to agree with it or what I thought it meant.

The word was supposed to be homosexual + fear, homo-phobia, meaning being afraid of homosexuals, or homosexual sex. An obvious flatulent term, as I've never met anyone who was afraid of homosexuals. But the term was used on purpose because attaching the word phobia to anything implies mental disorder.

Today if you google the definition of homophobia you get this:

dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

If you google arachnophobia you get this:

extreme or irrational fear of spiders

That is there is no pretense anymore that anyone is afraid of homosexual people, yet the false word construction remains because they think it works as a weapon.

We all see what you did there.

I also took philosophy classes and there was no mention of homophobia, islamophobia or transphobia, etc.

At all.

[Mr. Perfect]

You are really going to like this one Ibs. All of this is stuff is documentable now in the digital age. You won't be able to get away with it.

Also don't think the irony is lost when you talk about established meanings of words and bandy around a term as a blunt instrument that's maybe 3 years old.

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[Simple Minded]

OlqU_JMTzd4

White guys...... they're all like that. I love this stuff. Thanks for posting Mr P.

I first noticed this phenomena around the year 2000, talking with my niece who was in her early 20's at the time. For her, no idea could be evaluated on its own merits, the demographics of the author had to be known and taken into account.

If we all took the opinions of others, with whom we disagree, and shoved those opinions up our butts, wouldn't that inoculate us against their diseases? Pretty sure that's sound medical science.

[Ibrahim]

You are really going to like this one Ibs. All of this is stuff is documentable now in the digital age. You won't be able to get away with it.

Also don't think the irony is lost when you talk about established meanings of words and bandy around a term as a blunt instrument that's maybe 3 years old.

Yes, lefty (or just academic and pedantic) youtubers started doing "takedowns" of this new cargo cult as soon as they started dusting off these old terms and making up new ones. So if you're the kind of person who can stomach a lot of youtube this debate has already played itself out like three years ago. But ultimately the alt-right videos are more popular on youtube. Not "watching someone else play video games" popular, but more popular than somebody explaining Derrida. So in the sense that McDonald's won the restaurant wars, the alt-right won the youtube war.


But you just need to look at the two terms that come up the most often. "Cultural Marxism" originates as a Nazi propaganda (Kulturbolschewismus) to explain how the glorious Aryan supermen became decadent and depraved during the Weimar years, or why so may Germans seemed interested in communism (spoiler alert: they blamed it on the Jews). Likely this term was relaunched for modern usage because there is so much overlap between the alt-right and literal neo-nazis, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who uses it understands the antisemitic origins or implications. In fact I assume most don't because most people lack any kind of real education on these subjects.

The other term - postmodernism - is more interesting in its misuse, because its often linked to Marxism or other forms of socialism, which is fascinating since Marxism is such an archetypically Modernist idea. Its (allegedly) based on reason and a scientific approach to history that predicts or creates an entirely materialist (allegedly) utipian economic and social project. This is deeply rooted in the assumptions modernist thought. To reject Marxism is more "postmodern" than to accept it. In fact most of the alt-right and neo-nazi arguments for "how man should live" are decidedly Romantic and Existentialist.


There's also the broader argument among the alt-right and neo-nazis that both of these things constitute an attack on "the West," which is fundamentally incoherent because Marx was Western and postmodernism is Western. Nor are they new ideas at this point that can somehow be considered alien to Western culture. In fact you could reasonably argue that alienating these concepts from "Western" civilization as a whole is inherently antisemitic, again even if most people don't understand the anti-semitic/Nazi roots of the argument.

[Ibrahim]

Other than a flat footed attempt to conflate Joe Rogan with alt righters I'm not sure there is a verifiable claim in there.

Oh I should add, I don't think Joe Rogan is a neo-nazi or even an alt-righter, even though he's had lots of them on his show over the years.

Rogan is just amenable to any view. He'll have somebody on talking about racial IQ scores and nod and agree, then he'll have a drug guy on explaining how he talked to aliens while on DMT and nod and agree, and then he'll have a guy on claiming aliens built the pyramids and he'll nod and agree.

Decent standup and great MMA commentator. I like him overall.

[Ibrahim]

Sometime in the 1980's ( as opposed to the 1880's or 1780's) somebody invented the word homophobia (later on islamaphobia, and being more recently invented the same principle will apply yet we won't need to perform the same exercise) and nobody asked me to agree with it or what I thought it meant.

Those are invented terms, absolutely. As are, for example "virtue signaling" and "SJW." Unpacking all of those would be a separate issue from the widespread misuse and misunderstanding of "cultural Marxism" and "postmodernism."

[noddy]

if righties do it, then its dog whistling, if lefties do it, then its virtue signalling.

i mostly hope the cultural marxists and cultural relativists fight unto the death and truly make the world a better place.

[Mr. Perfect]

Oh I should add, I don't think Joe Rogan is a neo-nazi or even an alt-righter, even though he's had lots of them on his show over the years.

Joe Rogan has had a neo Nazi on his show? Please provide a link.

[Mr. Perfect]

Those are invented terms, absolutely. As are, for example "virtue signaling" and "SJW." Unpacking all of those would be a separate issue from the widespread misuse and misunderstanding of "cultural Marxism" and "postmodernism."

Not exactly separate. The issue is that the leftists you claim get to define words have already poisoned the well.

[Mr. Perfect]

Yes, lefty (or just academic and pedantic) youtubers started doing "takedowns" of this new cargo cult as soon as they started dusting off these old terms and making up new ones. So if you're the kind of person who can stomach a lot of youtube this debate has already played itself out like three years ago. But ultimately the alt-right videos are more popular on youtube. Not "watching someone else play video games" popular, but more popular than somebody explaining Derrida. So in the sense that McDonald's won the restaurant wars, the alt-right won the youtube war.


But you just need to look at the two terms that come up the most often. "Cultural Marxism" originates as a Nazi propaganda (Kulturbolschewismus) to explain how the glorious Aryan supermen became decadent and depraved during the Weimar years, or why so may Germans seemed interested in communism (spoiler alert: they blamed it on the Jews). Likely this term was relaunched for modern usage because there is so much overlap between the alt-right and literal neo-nazis, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who uses it understands the antisemitic origins or implications. In fact I assume most don't because most people lack any kind of real education on these subjects.

The other term - postmodernism - is more interesting in its misuse, because its often linked to Marxism or other forms of socialism, which is fascinating since Marxism is such an archetypically Modernist idea. Its (allegedly) based on reason and a scientific approach to history that predicts or creates an entirely materialist (allegedly) utipian economic and social project. This is deeply rooted in the assumptions modernist thought. To reject Marxism is more "postmodern" than to accept it. In fact most of the alt-right and neo-nazi arguments for "how man should live" are decidedly Romantic and Existentialist.


There's also the broader argument among the alt-right and neo-nazis that both of these things constitute an attack on "the West," which is fundamentally incoherent because Marx was Western and postmodernism is Western. Nor are they new ideas at this point that can somehow be considered alien to Western culture. In fact you could reasonably argue that alienating these concepts from "Western" civilization as a whole is inherently antisemitic, again even if most people don't understand the anti-semitic/Nazi roots of the argument.

Conservatives railing against cultural marxism goes back before I was born. The "alt right" doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Also I don't think you are able to discern between alt right and mainstream conservatism.

[Mr. Perfect]

For example this video is 7 years old, far before anyone said alt right. I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

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[Simple Minded]

if righties do it, then its dog whistling, if lefties do it, then its virtue signalling.

i mostly hope the cultural marxists and cultural relativists fight unto the death and truly make the world a better place.

I like the word schadenfreude. When you use, it doesn't reveal your group identity. Except maybe that you are an a-hole. But who isn't?

[Ibrahim]

Conservatives railing against cultural marxism goes back before I was born. The "alt right" doesn't really have anything to do with it.

If you review my post you'll see that the term originates in Nazi Germany, which also pre-dates the "alt-right."

Also I don't think you are able to discern between alt right and mainstream conservatism.

Its getting harder lately.

[Ibrahim]

Oh I should add, I don't think Joe Rogan is a neo-nazi or even an alt-righter, even though he's had lots of them on his show over the years.

Joe Rogan has had a neo Nazi on his show? Please provide a link.

Gavin McInnes was on the show, bragging about his violent neo-nazi gang. Though recently he publicly stated that he was no longer the 'leader" of the gang after a number of them were charged with violent crimes.

[Ibrahim]

Those are invented terms, absolutely. As are, for example "virtue signaling" and "SJW." Unpacking all of those would be a separate issue from the widespread misuse and misunderstanding of "cultural Marxism" and "postmodernism."

Not exactly separate. The issue is that the leftists you claim get to define words have already poisoned the well.

There is an etymological and philosophical difference between adapting an existing term and creating a term.

I would also argue that terms like "homophobia" and "Islamophobia" were actually polite replacements for the term "bigot." Sort of an olive branch. You're not a hate-filled person, you're just afraid of things you don't fully understand, etc.



If you want to explore this separate line of inquiry I'm fine with that. Can we assume then that you agree that "Cultural Marxism" originated in Nazi Germany as antisemitic propaganda, and that there is nothing postmodern about Marxism?

[Ibrahim]

if righties do it, then its dog whistling, if lefties do it, then its virtue signalling.

i mostly hope the cultural marxists and cultural relativists fight unto the death and truly make the world a better place.

"Virtue signaling" is another one! Bit circular though, given that pointing out someone is virtue signaling could be construed in itself as virtue signaling. Not to mention plenty of the Greek and Roman guys that half of these alt-right kids have as their avatars were active proponents of the classical virtues and making oneself an example of them.

"Dog whistle" is a much easier term to use. I use it all the time!

[Mr. Perfect]

Gavin McInnes was on the show, bragging about his violent neo-nazi gang. Though recently he publicly stated that he was no longer the 'leader" of the gang after a number of them were charged with violent crimes.

Ah. Gavin McInnes is of course not a neo nazi. Any other examples or is this just another of your many false claims.

[Simple Minded]

I hereby invent the term "cyber-posing," and claim all royalties there of.

[Parodite]

The problem with identifier "alt right" is that there is little agreement on what it stands for, which renders it pretty much useless. True enough, this is also the case with other identifiers like "neo-marxist" or "post-modernist". It seems to me the best way out is to let people themselves explain the label they proudly wear.

People who self-identify as alt-right may not agree on what it stands for. It all comes off to me as messy collection of:

1. meme-creating teenagers poking fun and trolling any establishment or holy-cow
2. mostly young conservatives who feel betrayed by corporate-globalist neo-conservatism
3. economic nationalists / nation-state lovers / anti-EU and anti-Globalism
4. ethno-nationalists, racists, "racialists"

1, 2 and 3 seem to me the bulk and core of the original alt-right comprising 98% of it. Which is not much to worry about. But once 4 also declared themselves alt-right, despite it being a very small fringe group... the regressed-left/opportunistic neo-libs was given an easy target to smear and frame the entire group as crypto nazis, racists, islamophobes, xenophobes.

[Simple Minded]

Well said Parodite.

I still maintain that "mine" is the only true, valid ideology, and always will be.