Dangerously Divided America

Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:45 pm All of these elements of the Roman syndrome are evident in America today.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... an-crisis/
I'd bet that even during the decline and fall of Rome, that life for many in the Roman Empire was pretty consistent. Those without access to social media, probably didn't even realize it was happening.... until after the fact when they read about it in the newspapers. ;)

"It's a long way to both Peking and Beijing!" (tm)

Got any good links outlining the fall of the Persian Empire? :P

I'm glad you are back HP!! :)
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Simple Minded wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:01 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:45 pm All of these elements of the Roman syndrome are evident in America today.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... an-crisis/

"It's a long way to both Peking and Beijing!" (tm)

Got any good links outlining the fall of the Persian Empire? :P

I'm glad you are back HP!! :)

.

There no real sense to look towards direction of China to figure out issues leading to "fall of US"

China ( and those folks in that hemisphere) they "foreign" to Caucasian culture, mindset, world view and life .. they "different species" in terms of culture etc, they on a different planet ..

DIrection US (and West) should look towards, is Persia.

US should look HOW Pomegranates kept the EMPIRE "uninterrupted for 1000 yrs" in "harmony and peace"

Israel's "Golden Age" was when within Persian empire.

US not yet even 100 yrs and already falling apart.

Main secret, heart of Persian administration of empire, was to let the kingdoms within Persian empires live their own culture, religion etc etc. That mindset still in Pomegranates blood and bone

Why did persian empire fall ? ?

Hellenic civilization (western model) was "slave based economy" and civilization, free labour ..

Persian civilization was "paid labour economy".

Persepolis was built by paid labour .. daily payments to all is chronicled in British Museum art effects.

Unfortunately, the bad guys won when Alexander overrun Persia (and they still at winning) .. and humanity still paying for that .. humanity in "dark ages"

But .. Noblesse oblige .. Pomegranates will fix it .. LOL
crashtech66
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by crashtech66 »

Not to nitpick, but the US is 244 years old.
Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Simple Minded »

crashtech66 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:55 am Not to nitpick, but the US is 244 years old.
Wasn't the internet invented to promote nitpicking?

We don't discriminate against nitpickers here, it is a very honorable profession.
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Doc
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Doc »

Insurrection has been going on now for four + years. The insurrectionists are not Trump supporters

XG5BcU1ZGiA
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Doc
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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https://meaww.com/cnn-nbc-pay-insurrect ... -reactions
Did CNN and NBC pay 'insurrectionist' John Sullivan $70K for Capitol riot video? Internet says 'shut them down'

Sullivan, who describes himself as a video journalist 'documenting the front lines of protest happening around the world', founded Insurgence USA during the George Floyd riots last year
By Pooja Salvi
Published on : 01:36 PST, Feb 17, 2021
Tags :
Utah
Did CNN and NBC pay 'insurrectionist' John Sullivan $70K for Capitol riot video? Internet says 'shut them down'
Utah activist John Sullivan was paid by CNN and NBC for his footage of the riots (Tooele County Sheriff's Office)

Court documents filed by left-wing filmmaker John Sullivan's attorneys have claimed that CNN and NBC each paid $35,000 for his footage of the violence during the Capitol riot that took place on January 6, according to the latest reports.

Sullivan's defense attorney filed invoices with the court that proved CNN and NBC each paying Sullivan's firm $35,000 last month for the video rights to the video he filmed during the riots.

RELATED ARTICLES

Who is John Sullivan? Anderson Cooper trolled for talking to Utah man arrested for Capitol riot: 'He played you'

What is Insurgence USA? Far-left group allegedly encouraged 'seas of Trump supporters' to storm the Capitol

According to the report, a federal magistrate judge allowed Sullivan to keep Twitter and Facebook accounts, “but ordered him to end his involvement with a business he founded that the Justice Department says promotes and glorifies violent protests.”

However, prosecutors contend that Sullivan actively participated in the riot. His own videos provide evidence of that as the footage includes him wedding people on, encouraging violence and yelling, "we did this together" and "let's burn this s**t down". Apart from that, reports also add that he is seen telling viewers how to make Molotov cocktails and evade identification by police.

Pro-Trump protesters gather in front of the Capitol Building on January 6, 2021, in Washington, DC (Getty Images)

He was arrested and charged last month on charges for his involvement in the riot, including interfering with police during a civil disorder. At a hearing on Tuesday, February 16, afternoon on Sullivan’s release conditions, Washington-based Magistrate Judge Robin Meriweather said, "I am rejecting the broader prohibition on Twitter and Facebook and encrypted social media platforms,” also ordering that the Utah man be taken off of 24-hour location monitoring via GPS.

At the same time, he said that Sullivan "is to no longer work for Insurgence USA," will have his internet use monitored by probation officials and will be banned from using any social media platforms to incite riots, violent protests armed conflict or violence. Sullivan is reportedly also under home detention.

Sullivan, who describes himself as a video journalist "documenting the front lines of protest happening around the world", founded Insurgence USA during the George Floyd riots last year. An online fundraiser says the group wants to build local power to enable the community to "intervene in violence enacted by the state and government vigilantes".

He had become a controversial figure around the riots as he described himself as an opponent of Trump supporting Black Lives Matter, but BLM activists in Utah have reportedly disowned him.

After waiting for two weeks, Twitter banned Sullivan’s account. But the update about news channels paying for his footage has angered social media users with many calling out his Antifa connections. "CNN & NBC paid an 'insurrectionist' John Earl Sullivan $35,000 A PIECE for video footage of the Capitol insurrection. Sullivan just so happened to be the leader of an Antifa & BLM group 'Insurgence USA' at the Capitol. What makes the media friendly to this 'insurrectionist?'" one questioned.

"What's happening with @CNN and @NBCNews links to John Sullivan? Isn't he one of the "insurrectionists" that was paid by the aforementioned News Networks? Isn't he also ANTIFA?" another tweeted.

CNN & NBC paid an 'insurrectionist' John Earl Sullivan $35,000 A PIECE for video footage of the Capitol insurrection.

Sullivan just so happened to be the leader of an Antifa & BLM group 'Insurgence USA' at the Capitol.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Rep. Liz Cheney told the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute this week, “when isolationists launched the America First movement to appease Hitler.”

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... er-marker/

“Weakness is provocative,” Cheney told the forum’s chair, Roger Zakheim. America must be clear-eyed in accepting its exceptionalism, she argued, and implicitly siding with Democratic characterizations of the Trump years, Cheney stuck the knife in further, saying the GOP must not “become the party of white supremacy.”
Great lady .. that is what makes America great
Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:24 am .

Rep. Liz Cheney told the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute this week, “when isolationists launched the America First movement to appease Hitler.”

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... er-marker/

“Weakness is provocative,” Cheney told the forum’s chair, Roger Zakheim. America must be clear-eyed in accepting its exceptionalism, she argued, and implicitly siding with Democratic characterizations of the Trump years, Cheney stuck the knife in further, saying the GOP must not “become the party of white supremacy.”
Great lady .. that is what makes America great
I think Liz Cheney is just another example of elite class that consciously practicing self-loathing. Robin DeAngelo, The Kennedy Klan, John Kerry, Obama, etc.

IMSMO, that may be the biggest single divide in America, the self-loathers vs. those with a modicum of self-esteem.

Seems to be primarily an elitist disease. Elitist Fragility?

Kinda like Amway. The biggest believer are those who are profiting from their sales efforts.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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Liz Cheney can go to hell. We tried it the neocon way, and it was a disaster. Just because Trumpism is on the outs doesn't make the neocons look any better.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

The only influential white supremacist organization is BLM, and they are Democrats.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

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Nonc Hilaire wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:42 pm The only influential white supremacist organization is BLM, and they are Democrats.
Brilliant! Virtual & psychological ghettos. That the residents want to live in.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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crashtech66 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:03 pm Liz Cheney can go to hell. We tried it the neocon way, and it was a disaster. Just because Trumpism is on the outs doesn't make the neocons look any better.
Neo-Liberalism is more descriptive than Neocon these days. They are illiberal class warriors
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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Hmmm , interesting .. nobody praises Liz

Neo-Liberalism , Neocon ! ! ! .. LOL .. come on

Elitist Fragility ? ?

Look, as Plato in his book "The Republic" said, world always ruled by "Elite", hopefully so.

Problem in America is, America's "Elite" AVOID entering politics .. politics left to "illiterate" cones.

Republicans divided, between Trump school and Liz school .. crossing finger Liz wins

But

Seems Trump gathering steam :

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471827

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471825

At CPAC, China is the new Islam LOLOL - what a disaster




https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471828
I’m going to let it rip,” Pompeo said before launching into attacks on China while hailing President Donald Trump's order to kill Gen. Qasem Soleimani, who led Iran’s elite paramilitary forces.
“'America First' is right for America,” Pompeo said. “The entire world benefits when America is fearless and bold and strong.”

:lol: - very funny

More than half of Republicans said in a recent POLITICO/Morning Consult Poll that they'd vote for the former president if the primary was being held today, with all other contenders well behind. Mike Pence led the secondary group at 12%.

:D - worst than "tragedy-Comedy"


Dont misunderstand, HP not against Trump, in contrary, he unearthed things simering for decades under the ash .. can't kick the can forever.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by crashtech66 »

As long as you know the "Liz school" is the more interventionist of the two.
Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Simple Minded »

crashtech66 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:21 am As long as you know the "Liz school" is the more interventionist of the two.
Nobody is a bigger fan of the US intervening in the Middle East than HP. He loves US imperialism. ;)
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:53 pm Hmmm , interesting .. nobody praises Liz

Neo-Liberalism , Neocon ! ! ! .. LOL .. come on

Elitist Fragility ? ?

Look, as Plato in his book "The Republic" said, world always ruled by "Elite", hopefully so.

Problem in America is, America's "Elite" AVOID entering politics .. politics left to "illiterate" cones.
The world HP is run by the elite class. Unfortunately they are mostly incompetent Idiots when it comes to running the world. Yes they buy and control politicians. Tell them what to be for and what to be against. But they live in a bubble. I am of the opinion that the robber barons of 100 years ago would eat the lunch of today's version of robber barons, every day of the week. Of course a week is about how far into the future today's robber barons can see.

Have you noticed that inside of both parties real leaders have been far and few between in the last decades? The elites are afraid of independent populist Politicians. They only know how to deal with them in the most heavy handed ways.

Republicans divided, between Trump school and Liz school .. crossing finger Liz wins

But

Seems Trump gathering steam :

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471827

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471825

At CPAC, China is the new Islam LOLOL - what a disaster




https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/2 ... ump-471828
I’m going to let it rip,” Pompeo said before launching into attacks on China while hailing President Donald Trump's order to kill Gen. Qasem Soleimani, who led Iran’s elite paramilitary forces.
“'America First' is right for America,” Pompeo said. “The entire world benefits when America is fearless and bold and strong.”

:lol: - very funny

More than half of Republicans said in a recent POLITICO/Morning Consult Poll that they'd vote for the former president if the primary was being held today, with all other contenders well behind. Mike Pence led the secondary group at 12%.

:D - worst than "tragedy-Comedy"


Dont misunderstand, HP not against Trump, in contrary, he unearthed things simering for decades under the ash .. can't kick the can forever.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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The world HP is run by the elite class. Unfortunately they are mostly incompetent Idiots when it comes to running the world. Yes they buy and control politicians. Tell them what to be for and what to be against. But they live in a bubble. I am of the opinion that the robber barons of 100 years ago would eat the lunch of today's version of robber barons, every day of the week. Of course a week is about how far into the future today's robber barons can see.

Have you noticed that inside of both parties real leaders have been far and few between in the last decades ? The elites are afraid of independent populist Politicians. They only know how to deal with them in the most heavy handed ways.


Doc , there a misunderstanding

In Imperial China, each year, the court invited children of commoners to a TEST

Those excelling those TEST, they entered the "Mandarin" court, became the "ELITE" .. and .. ran China

Elitism was not inheritary, had nothing to do how rich one was.

That is why China stayed #1 in the world for 1000s of yrs

Today, same school, same concept rules in Europe, Angela Merkel

Germany, Merkel, let in "one million" syrian refugee, integrated them in German workforce, not bickering China stole German jobs


In America not the "Elite" but the MONEY rules .. politicians, openly, are elected, and serve, MONEY interest.

American Jobs were not stolen by Chinese but by American capital.

Recently, there was an article (I think in NYT), interview with a top corporate CEO .. he said, our allegiance is to the shareholders, and not to America. He said that responsibility is with the politicians (who are chosen by the capital)
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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The six volumes series The History of Imperial China devotes considerable attention to the civil service examination system.

Of the three levels of examination under the Qing, the lowest was given every year and a half at the local level. The odds of passing this exam were remote, and some candidates took it dozens of times without success. But for those who passed, the rewards were great: they became shengyuan (novice scholars) and thus members of the gentry elite. This status entitled them to wear gentry robes, enjoy exemptions from common criminal punishments and corvée impositions, receive state stipends in some cases, and most importantly enjoy privileged access to--and status equality with--local officials.

The second level of examination was administered at the provincial level every three years. Candidates passed at a rate ranging from one out of every twenty-five to one out of a hundred, depending on the quota pertaining in the particular time and place. Those who succeeded became juren (selected men) theoretically eligible for appointment to office, though without a yet higher degree this was unlikely. Even so, selected men gained entry to what is sometimes called the upper gentry--the distinction between upper and lower gentry status being very real in contemporary society.

The third and highest level, the metropolitan examination administered at Beijing every three years, allowed winners to call themselves jinshi (scholars presented to the throne, or presented scholars). These men were the true national elite and the talent pool from which most officials were drawn. Their names were inscribed on steles, lined up in ranks, class by class, in the Confucian Temple in the imperial capital.

At all three levels, the civil service examinations consisted of questions on the Confucian classical texts and on poetry. Students were required to write "eight-legged essays," a form of logical argumentation designated moral issues in the classics with elaborately specified stylistic rules. There were also some policy questions on administrative techniques and economic and political issues of the day, but these were of far less consequence for passing or failing. Those who passed the exams and went on to become officials did, of course, necessarily educate themselves in administration practices, but this was an entirely separate body of literature from the examination curriculum. Vociferous arguments raged throughout the Qing over whether the examination curriculum ought to be reformed to stress more policy-oriented questions, but it was never substantially revised. The exams remained above all a test of refined literacy, which, given the crucial importance of clear written communication to the task of administering so vast an empire, made a certain amount of practical sense.


... The majority of degree winners were not the sons of other winners--but a large percentage had a degree winner as a fairly close relative. That is, there was a definite social floor below which those upward mobility opportunities did not extend--a floor imposed by the costs of the intensive and protracted education demanded of examination candidates. It was less the expense of books or teaching than the simple value of lost labor. A household had to enjoy a degree of economic comfort sufficient to sacrifice the labor of a male offspring (a sturdy one, since classical study and examination training were reasonably physically demanding) and to support him for decades while he prepared to become a candidate for the examination; and even after years of study and sacrifice, he might still never pass the test.

-- William T. Rowe, China's Last Empire: The Great Qing (Harvard University Press, 2009)
Last edited by Apollonius on Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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The population of China tripled between 1700, when it was about 150 million, and 1850, when it was about 450 million. Opportunities did not expand commensurately.
A corollary of the population problem was what might be called a talent glut--a predicament familiar to many developing nations today, in which the educational system produces talented individuals faster than the economy or political system can find satisfactory employment for them. This was a true crisis of prosperity. Because of prolonged peace, comfortable standards of living, and an expanding school system over the eighteenth century, the number of literate--even classically educated--members of the population grew faster than the population as a whole. An imperfect index of this is provided by the number of lower degree holders, which increased from around 40,000 in 1400 to around 600,000 in 1700, and to well over 1,000,000 a century later. The index is imperfect because the state imposed a quota on the number of examination degrees awarded, and in the second half of the eighteenth century the court made a conscientious effort to slow the expansion of these quotas. But during a period of continuing prosperity, this action on the part of the state did not slow growth in the numbers of students studying to achieve these degrees, and so in effect it merely compounded the problem.


... In 1800 there were only around 20,000 official posts in the empire, drawing on a talent pool of over 1,400,000 upper and lower degree holders--that is, just one post for every seventy degree holders.

-- William T. Rowe, China's Last Empire: The Great Qing (Harvard University Press, 2009)
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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On the subject of "American Exceptionalism" , excellent article from MK BHADRAKUMAR in ATOL

https://asiatimes.com/2021/03/us-except ... ll-it-fly/

"Biden administration’s plan to put democracy and rights at the center of its foreign policy"

Somebody should tell Biden, Trump pored those things into toilet and flashed. :lol:

Those days (foolin world) gone.
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

So let's re-tread that Bush-era neocon crap and tell the rest of the world what to do??? That's so.... :P :P :P :P ....
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:10 pm So let's re-tread that Bush-era neocon crap and tell the rest of the world what to do??? That's so.... :P :P :P :P ....

https://www.ft.com/content/1ccbc461-28e ... fe21779350

https://www.businessinsider.com/blinken ... ack-2021-2


Trump pretty much wiped out the "resemblance" of any "democracy and rights" in American foreign policy.

No buyer anymore
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Re: Dangerously Divided America

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Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:48 pm On the subject of "American Exceptionalism" , excellent article from MK BHADRAKUMAR in ATOL

https://asiatimes.com/2021/03/us-except ... ll-it-fly/

"Biden administration’s plan to put democracy and rights at the center of its foreign policy"

Somebody should tell Biden, Trump pored those things into toilet and flashed. :lol:

Those days (foolin world) gone.
Ironic given he stole the election here.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: Dangerously Divided America

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:16 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:48 pm On the subject of "American Exceptionalism" , excellent article from MK BHADRAKUMAR in ATOL

https://asiatimes.com/2021/03/us-except ... ll-it-fly/

"Biden administration’s plan to put democracy and rights at the center of its foreign policy"

Somebody should tell Biden, Trump pored those things into toilet and flashed. :lol:

Those days (foolin world) gone.
Ironic given he stole the election here.
People who live in the Cradle of Civilization shouldn't listen to any of the young upstart Western Nations. We're not even 300 years old. We're punks kids who don't know any better.
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