Ukraine

[Heracleum Persicum]

Speaking of unsupported arguments . . . see above.

Anyways, an ersatz Iranian, enjoying all the benefits of living in the West, with a serious, apparently terminal, case of Russophilia.

Too funny. From both a historical and current perspective.

Will post link to each line posted above .. when I posting anything, I have in mind that I will be asked to validate it.


This intelligent unbiased debate the way West deserves .. imagine somebody would have posted against Iraq or Afghanistan war, would have he been a traitor to Western front ? after the fact we see now he would have been a good loyal Western citizen.

Are Americans happy LBJ fooling them about Gulf of Tonkin incident ? don't American wish now they should have been more skeptical ?

The damage that Vietnam inflicted to America, not only militarily, is much bigger than all Vietnam and Laos would have fallen to communism

The US has taken plenty of dumb actions, however, these do not justify, in any way whatsoever, the actions of Russia.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy, not an argument.

Saying goes , "1st time, shame on you .. 2nd time time, shame on me"

After Gulf of Tonkin, after Iraqi WMD, after Afghanistan Bin Laden (scam), After Libya, after Syria McCain and Graham freedom fighters beheading westerners live on TV , this 6th time "Shame on me" situation

That is why Azari posting what he posting.

Western Joe "coned" by elite into disasters again and again .. lesson not yet learned ?

American and Western high ground moral, even military, position is being eroded with these disastrous mistakes.


This new world, all the world is watching, they know the facts, and judging

In the new world order, "Big Gun Military might" lost it's teeth .. Iranian Drones costing $ 5000 (with AI) beat multi billion Dollar defences.

Now, in the future much more, it is the war for gaining "good will" of the rest of the world

The rest of the world no dummy, they read and know everything

Since 40 yrs, West tried everything to generate an uprising in Iran against the mad mullahs, failed .. reason is Iran now 100% literate and all on internet, they best informed, cant be fooled anymore.

.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Harley Schlanger.

Vice President of the Schiller Institute USA, National Spokesman for Lyndon LaRouche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huKn4uv-FgA

huKn4uv-FgA


Some truth to it

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Russia’s lead negotiator, Vladimir Medinsky, said on Wednesday that Ukraine agreed in principle to officially become a neutral country.
..

“Yesterday, for the first time, the Ukrainian party announced, not only orally but also in written form, that it’s ready to fulfill a number of the most important conditions for building normal, and, hopefully, good-neighbourly relations with Russia in the future.

Let me remind you that after the 2014 coup d'état in Ukraine Russia has been making these demands to the Kiev regime, to its patrons, especially the United States, for years. Russia proposed negotiations, proposed to conclude various kinds of agreements that were supposed to guarantee Ukraine’s security and provide Russia's national interests in this area.

All these demands had been ignored for years. And the North Atlantic Alliance has also been creating an anti-Russian foothold from Ukraine, more precisely, from Ukrainian territory, for years.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552987-top-ru ... eace-deal/

https://youtu.be/3nRZtdagdJ4?t=62



Well, seems wise head in Kyiv prevailed .. Zelenskyy stays .. he tried his best

Soon all this be off the table

But

West's hand revealed

This no more same world

This a new World

Alliances step forward from behind the veil

We know now China-Russia-Iran alliance rock solid

India, Pakistan, Brazil, South Africa, Mexico, Arabs, many nations they now "no sure bet" anymore towing western rope

Poor Germans, they were pushed into this by Brits .. they going to pay heavy price for energy etc etc

Eastern Europe will be big loser too .. comet next BANG they first will get it

Kiss goodbye Dollar .. buy some Ruble .. and .. Iranian Rials .. https://bonbast.com/

[Mr. Perfect]

Pretty much true. Taiwan, Japan, Aus next on chopping block. What a disaster

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552996-milita ... v-donbass/

Defense Ministry says that main goal of the operation’s “first stage” – to limit Kiev’s capabilities on key Donbass direction – has been fulfilled

..

. . the initial stage of Moscow’s military operation involved forcing Ukrainian military “to concentrate its forces, means, resources and military equipment to hold large settlements in these directions, including Kiev,” to tie them up, while avoiding storming the cities, and to defeat them in such a way that would prevent them from using these forces “in the main direction of operations of our Armed Forces – in the Donbass.”

Aim was to "occupy" the Ukraine/Russia border region, Donbass etc .. aim was not to conquer Ukraine and regime change.

Looks like this now accomplished

Next step is an Ukraine/Russia political settlement, which is in progress.

[Typhoon]

.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552996-milita ... v-donbass/

Defense Ministry says that main goal of the operation’s “first stage” – to limit Kiev’s capabilities on key Donbass direction – has been fulfilled

..

. . the initial stage of Moscow’s military operation involved forcing Ukrainian military “to concentrate its forces, means, resources and military equipment to hold large settlements in these directions, including Kiev,” to tie them up, while avoiding storming the cities, and to defeat them in such a way that would prevent them from using these forces “in the main direction of operations of our Armed Forces – in the Donbass.”

Aim was to "occupy" the Ukraine/Russia border region, Donbass etc .. aim was not to conquer Ukraine and regime change.

Looks like this now accomplished

Next step is an Ukraine/Russia political settlement, which is in progress.

Last time I checked a map, Kyiv is not in the Donbas region.

Not according to Putin's assertion of making Ukraine part of Russia. What a disaster for Putin. What a disaster for Russia.

[Typhoon]

Pretty much true. Taiwan, Japan, Aus next on chopping block. What a disaster

Thanks for the comic relief projections.

As the Ukraine is forcefully demonstrating, no one wants to be Russian.

Nor do they want to be PR Chinese or Iranian.

[Doc]

.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552996-milita ... v-donbass/

Defense Ministry says that main goal of the operation’s “first stage” – to limit Kiev’s capabilities on key Donbass direction – has been fulfilled

..

. . the initial stage of Moscow’s military operation involved forcing Ukrainian military “to concentrate its forces, means, resources and military equipment to hold large settlements in these directions, including Kiev,” to tie them up, while avoiding storming the cities, and to defeat them in such a way that would prevent them from using these forces “in the main direction of operations of our Armed Forces – in the Donbass.”

Aim was to "occupy" the Ukraine/Russia border region, Donbass etc .. aim was not to conquer Ukraine and regime change.

Looks like this now accomplished

Next step is an Ukraine/Russia political settlement, which is in progress.

Last time I checked a map, Kyiv is not in the Donbas region.

Not according to Putin's assertion of making Ukraine part of Russia. What a disaster for Putin. What a disaster for Russia.

Seems like it is more what Putin wants and what Putin needs. He needs a way to prevent Crimea from being cut off from Russia. A bridge is not much of a connection in war. Getting Eastern Ukraine up to the Dnieper river would just be a big added bonus. As it would give Russia a good defensive position if NATO were to invade. Rumors of Russian Troops being withdrawn from Northern Ukraine is just about falling back to re-organize Russian forces then the attack will continue.

But that is only on paper War has suddenly had a paradigm shift in how it will be fought and won.

Too bad Putin doesn't have a subscription to the Marine Corps Times

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/flashp ... heres-why/

The Marines want to get rid of their tanks. Here’s why.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552996-milita ... v-donbass/

Defense Ministry says that main goal of the operation’s “first stage” – to limit Kiev’s capabilities on key Donbass direction – has been fulfilled

..

. . the initial stage of Moscow’s military operation involved forcing Ukrainian military “to concentrate its forces, means, resources and military equipment to hold large settlements in these directions, including Kiev,” to tie them up, while avoiding storming the cities, and to defeat them in such a way that would prevent them from using these forces “in the main direction of operations of our Armed Forces – in the Donbass.”

Aim was to "occupy" the Ukraine/Russia border region, Donbass etc .. aim was not to conquer Ukraine and regime change.

Looks like this now accomplished

Next step is an Ukraine/Russia political settlement, which is in progress.

Last time I checked a map, Kyiv is not in the Donbas region.

Not according to Putin's assertion of making Ukraine part of Russia. What a disaster for Putin. What a disaster for Russia.

Looking at this map (from posted BBC article), one sees that Russian "incursion" was only in Ukraine/Russia and Belarus "border region" .. Kyiv pretty much touches that space

The Russian military today said, the Kyiv operation was to "distract" Ukraine military from Donbas region, and was not meant to take over Kyiv.

Inside Ukraine, there no Russian forces at all

map.png (2.34 MiB) Viewed 1343 times

[Mr. Perfect]

Pretty much true. Taiwan, Japan, Aus next on chopping block. What a disaster

Thanks for the comic relief projections.

As the Ukraine is forcefully demonstrating, no one wants to be Russian.

Nor do they want to be PR Chinese or Iranian.

Historically that has little to do with a conquerors appetites or their ability succeed.

What we do know is no one will save you when the time comes

[Mr. Perfect]

Trying to see if there is anything unfactual in this.

Sounds like one of your clueless geldings.

Sounds like you couldn’t find anything unfactual

[Heracleum Persicum]

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

posted already

all mentioned in my post is confirmed in BBC article

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

.

[Typhoon]

Pretty much true. Taiwan, Japan, Aus next on chopping block. What a disaster

Thanks for the comic relief projections.

As the Ukraine is forcefully demonstrating, no one wants to be Russian.

Nor do they want to be PR Chinese or Iranian.

Historically that has little to do with a conquerors appetites or their ability succeed.

What we do know is no one will save you when the time comes

Thank you for your concern.

However, Just as I don't given any weight to homeopaths regarding my health,
I don't give any weight to posts by anonymous keyboard-warrior clowns regarding geopolitics.

[Heracleum Persicum]

As mentioned, right now, Indian media is best for unbiased accurate news re Ukraine/Russia clash

It says all what I posted above


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zJCOQ5sdw&t=7s


Says what Russian objectives were and that those are achieved and comet next

[Doc]

As mentioned, right now, Indian media is best for unbiased accurate news re Ukraine/Russia clash

It says all what I posted above


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zJCOQ5sdw&t=7s

.

No India is quite vested in getting Russian arms and parts for the Russian arms it has already purchased.

[Typhoon]

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

posted already

all mentioned in my post is confirmed in BBC article

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

.

I was not asking you, background noise.

However, only a slavish Russophile could read an article documenting Putin's failures to achieve his stated goals in invading the Ukraine and try to put a positive spin on it.

[Heracleum Persicum]

As mentioned, right now, Indian media is best for unbiased accurate news re Ukraine/Russia clash

It says all what I posted above


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zJCOQ5sdw&t=7s

.

No India is quite vested in getting Russian arms and parts for the Russian arms it has already purchased.

India is courted more by US than from Russians

Russians dont need India much, but , without India Western confrontation with China would be "teethless"

In that sense Indian reporting re Ukraine/Russia conflict as truthful" as one get now

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

posted already

all mentioned in my post is confirmed in BBC article

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

I was not asking you, background noise.

However, only a slavish Russophile could read an article documenting Putin's failures to achieve his stated goals in invading the Ukraine and try to put a positive spin on it.

pls post reputable source Putin's "stated goals in invading the Ukraine"


Have not seen a single lie from Putin "ever" .. if you seen, pls post

.
.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Ukraine shooting now going "low flame", emphasis will be now more on negotiating a settlement.



Real action now shifts to Russia could cut European Gas deliveries

Yesterday Macron told Putin Europe will not pay for the gas Ruble, will stock paying Euro that stays in Russian ECB frozen account



https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-30/


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/busi ... oning.html

Kremlin appeared to defuse the standoff by detailing a plan that would allow Berlin or other European customers to keep paying in euros. The plan was relayed by Mr. Putin in a telephone call with Chancellor Olaf Scholz, according to statements released late Wednesday by the German government and by the Russian state news agency, Tass.

In the call, Mr. Putin said that a new Russian law requiring gas deliveries to be settled in rubles would go into effect April 1. But “payments would continue to be made exclusively in euros and transferred as usual to Gazprom Bank, which is not affected by the sanctions,” according to a statement from Mr. Scholz’s office summarizing the call. “The bank would then convert the money into rubles.”

..

Moscow-based Gazprom Bank, which handles energy contracts, was not placed under sanctions, a concession to Europe’s heavy dependence on Russian coal, oil and natural gas. More than 40 percent of all gas imported by Europe is from Russia. Europe’s energy payments to Russia, which have been rising because of escalating prices, could average $850 million per day in the first half of 2022, according to Bruegel, an economics institute in Brussels.

By going through the Gazprom Bank, Russia is able to convert the Western currencies to rubles.

This a bit strange when Germany, Europe, must buy "daily" $ 850 million Gas from Russia when at the same time delivers weapon to those who are in war with Russia


https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine ... -supplies/


How does this work ?


The other question is, Europe must now "diversify" it's gas purchases .. relying on US gas, LNG, makes Europe too dependant of US (blackmail)

Meaning Europe probably will keep Russian gas (much cheaper than LNG), import from US , and from Middle East , from Iran

On the other hand, if Ukraine and Russia agree Ukraine being "Finlandized" , would mean no weapons goes to Ukraine


.

[Typhoon]

. . .

As for the assertions:

I'm on record earlier in this thread saying that the Biden administration and American bureaucrats are filled with fanatical people who want a war with Russia. I'll even agree that they've been poking at Russia and would prefer a policies which destabilize Russia.

But so what? Countries are filled with people who play these sorts of games for all sorts of reasons.

The bottom line remains that Vladmir Putin played himself.

-- The idea that everyone but Putin has agency for their actions is risible.

--The idea that Russia deserves a sphere of influence with people who don't want Russia's sphere is risible.

--The idea that Russia needs the Ukraine as a missile buffer is risible too, no matter how impressive their defensive systems are.

-- The idea Russia is allowed to intervene in the affairs of other countries on ethnic grounds is risible.

-- The idea that Russia was forced into this because people halfway across the globe don't like them is risible.

-- The idea that Russia is a "traditionalist" country is risible.

Quite.

[Doc]

As mentioned, right now, Indian media is best for unbiased accurate news re Ukraine/Russia clash

It says all what I posted above


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zJCOQ5sdw&t=7s

.

No India is quite vested in getting Russian arms and parts for the Russian arms it has already purchased.

India is courted more by US than from Russians

Russians dont need India much, but , without India Western confrontation with China would be "teethless"

Indian being a major a major if not the major importer of Russian arms says different.

In that sense Indian reporting re Ukraine/Russia conflict as truthful" as one get now

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

posted already

all mentioned in my post is confirmed in BBC article

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

I was not asking you, background noise.

However, only a slavish Russophile could read an article documenting Putin's failures to achieve his stated goals in invading the Ukraine and try to put a positive spin on it.

pls post reputable source Putin's "stated goals in invading the Ukraine"


Have not seen a single lie from Putin "ever" .. if you seen, pls post

.
.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

As much fun it is to be an American, everything doesn't revolve around us and even I think this thread has become too much about America and American politics.

The American Deep State may have conceptual utility, and I'd 1000% make the arguments for that; but we are entering Turkey levels of paranoia about who controls what and by how much.

Victoria Nuland, whatever I think of her, is not some super clever 4-d chess-playing, mind-controlling agent who gets Vladimir Putin to start wars for her.

Nor did we get Zelensky to do it either. This is my favorite excuse, "The Americans tricked Zelinsky to do it,"

Maybe I missed it but Ukrainian tanks didn't roll into Russian territory. Ukrainian planes weren't bombing Saint Petersburg.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well, the narrative changes. I don't think publicly begging for weapons means things are going well.

[Mr. Perfect]

The bottom line remains that Vladmir Putin played himself.

-- The idea that everyone but Putin has agency for their actions is risible.

--The idea that Russia deserves a sphere of influence with people who don't want Russia's sphere is risible.

--The idea that Russia needs the Ukraine as a missile buffer is risible too, no matter how impressive their defensive systems are.

-- The idea Russia is allowed to intervene in the affairs of other countries on ethnic grounds is risible.

-- The idea that Russia was forced into this because people halfway across the globe don't like them is risible.

-- The idea that Russia is a "traditionalist" country is risible.

All that and $10 won't even get you coffee anymore.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The bottom line remains that Vladmir Putin played himself.

-- The idea that everyone but Putin has agency for their actions is risible.

--The idea that Russia deserves a sphere of influence with people who don't want Russia's sphere is risible.

--The idea that Russia needs the Ukraine as a missile buffer is risible too, no matter how impressive their defensive systems are.

-- The idea Russia is allowed to intervene in the affairs of other countries on ethnic grounds is risible.

-- The idea that Russia was forced into this because people halfway across the globe don't like them is risible.

-- The idea that Russia is a "traditionalist" country is risible.

All that and $10 won't even get you coffee anymore.

and?

[Mr. Perfect]

As mentioned, right now, Indian media is best for unbiased accurate news re Ukraine/Russia clash

It says all what I posted above


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zJCOQ5sdw&t=7s


Says what Russian objectives were and that those are achieved and comet next

Good tip. Western media wall to wall lies