Designing a Cooperative

[noddy]

Tbh SM, I would just delete and go back to the drawing board.

this is my optimistic attitude toward a crash, i never believed for one second it was politically possible to unwind the creeping nanny state, big government, formation of new permenant elite classes - it either crashes or we start living in judge dredd|brave new world|1984...whichever dystopian future resonates for you.

[Mr. Perfect]

The west is still quite prosperous all things considered.

*cough*
*gasp*

Not once you consider the debt. Not after that.

When sushi joints start closing down, I'll start to consider that New York's economy is on some sort of macro decline, but as long as I can still get Sushi delivered to my door, then I have to assume that the luxury infrastructure involved in delivering raw fish wrapped around rice is still intact.

*cough*
*gasp*

Food delivery is available in the poorest burgs in America. All data points to macro decline in almost all areas, the exception being rich white people plugged into STPN. They are doing incredibly well.

We are in a fluctuation a low period in the variance, it is far from apocalyptic in terms of losing our way of life.

We're going bankrupt as fast as we can figure out how.

Some fundamental organizing principles are changing. I see contract work as being the future, rather than employment.

I see $#!tshacks. Unless you have an opportunity to save a lot of money with your new gig I would recommend switching back to your commune/$#!tshack plan and learn subsistence living.

The employer healthcare mandate is the single biggest shackle on business today, we need to move toward a more comprehensive system that doesn't burden business to hire new employees or else they are going to increasingly circumvent it by hiring contract workers that don't require such benefits.

[/quote]
All whistling in the graveyard, Obamacare is going to unleash unprecedented havoc on the economy, but the brightside is that the pine box industry is going to boom. Big Pinebox, growth industry.

[noddy]

New market idea, seems to me there might be a high demand for a product that chemically induces a state of indifference/apathy........ especially if we keep hire someone to keep pumping the ideas of Man Made Global Warming, rampant racism, fiscal cliff, end of the Mayan calender, life sucks, Germans/French/Chinese are out to get us, etc.

I'm thinking liquid, powder, pills, or something you could smoke just might sell..... least here in Merika, whadda think?

What would we call it?

if we can somehow steal apples art department and advertising execs we wouldnt even have to do the hard work of producing a new chemical, placebo effect is fine.. mayhaps a homeopathic reduction of something.

[Mr. Perfect]

Tbh SM, I would just delete and go back to the drawing board.

this is my optimistic attitude toward a crash, i never believed for one second it was politically possible to unwind the creeping nanny state, big government, formation of new permenant elite classes - it either crashes or we start living in judge dredd|brave new world|1984...whichever dystopian future resonates for you.

Well my comment was more about SM's untenable comments about group behaviors in good times/bad times, his Elliot Wave sometimes is but a ripple, but while we're on it starting over is not in the cards. I think very few have any idea what's coming around the bend. In fact how far off some people are is astonishing. Oh well. Learn the hard way.

[Simple Minded]

Tbh SM, I would just delete and go back to the drawing board.

this is my optimistic attitude toward a crash, i never believed for one second it was politically possible to unwind the creeping nanny state, big government, formation of new permenant elite classes - it either crashes or we start living in judge dredd|brave new world|1984...whichever dystopian future resonates for you.

Well my comment was more about SM's untenable comments about group behaviors in good times/bad times, his Elliot Wave sometimes is but a ripple, but while we're on it starting over is not in the cards. I think very few have any idea what's coming around the bend. In fact how far off some people are is astonishing. Oh well. Learn the hard way.

Obviously, I did word that too well,…. I was talking about individuals, not groups. Individuals who hide in groups to avoid personal responsibility always act poorly.

Individuals who have been raised in poverty realize that dropping out of the middle class is not the end of life itself, just the end of life as we have known it during the bubble decades. Individuals who have been raised in the middle class may or may not have the same mental toughness and resilience. Each have their own temperament and standards of evaluation.

Cultures can change drastically over a distance of a couple miles or a period of a few years. Thats both good and bad.

Good news is some will utilize the hard times to gain a perspective they could never have gained during a lifetime of prosperity. For them, the gain will be priceless. Bad news is some will utilize the hard times to wig out and go Mad Max.

FWIW Mr. P, you agree with the EWers more often than you are aware. Kinda like Tinker and Ayn Rand in that regard. The EWers are predicting a Grand Supercycle wave decline. Bigger than anything the West has seen in over 200 years. Their take is The Great Depression was one designation smaller (Supercycle wave decline). While the Dark Ages was one designation larger (Millennial wave decline).

Like I told my 60 year old brother, "Dude, you had two or three prosperous decades!!! How many did you expect?"

Life will be what it will be, choices are either deal with it or check oneself out. From what I have seen during my life, most people reap what they sow. I don’t expect that to change anytime soon.

then again, I have been wrong before I don't expect that to change anytime soon either

Luckily, it don't bother me mush, must, much....

[Simple Minded]

New market idea, seems to me there might be a high demand for a product that chemically induces a state of indifference/apathy........ especially if we keep hire someone to keep pumping the ideas of Man Made Global Warming, rampant racism, fiscal cliff, end of the Mayan calender, life sucks, Germans/French/Chinese are out to get us, etc.

I'm thinking liquid, powder, pills, or something you could smoke just might sell..... least here in Merika, whadda think?

What would we call it?

if we can somehow steal apples art department and advertising execs we wouldnt even have to do the hard work of producing a new chemical, placebo effect is fine.. mayhaps a homeopathic reduction of something.

I have not even thought about symbology yet. But regarding marketing targets, I was thinking Zero Hedge and that new fangled internet thingy.....

Ie: Slogans; "chemical change you can believe in!" "better living thru chemistry!" "life sucks, who cares?"

[Sparky]

New market idea, seems to me there might be a high demand for a product that chemically induces a state of indifference/apathy........ especially if we keep hire someone to keep pumping the ideas of Man Made Global Warming, rampant racism, fiscal cliff, end of the Mayan calender, life sucks, Germans/French/Chinese are out to get us, etc.

I'm thinking liquid, powder, pills, or something you could smoke just might sell..... least here in Merika, whadda think?

What would we call it?

if we can somehow steal apples art department and advertising execs we wouldnt even have to do the hard work of producing a new chemical, placebo effect is fine.. mayhaps a homeopathic reduction of something.

I have not even thought about symbology yet. But regarding marketing targets, I was thinking Zero Hedge and that new fangled internet thingy.....

Ie: Slogans; "chemical change you can believe in!" "better living thru chemistry!" "life sucks, who cares?"

Ah, sort of sullen Soma, eh? How about Mehntos? Blearios? Available now at all good apathecaries...

[Mr. Perfect]

FWIW Mr. P, you agree with the EWers more often than you are aware. Kinda like Tinker and Ayn Rand in that regard. The EWers are predicting a Grand Supercycle wave decline. Bigger than anything the West has seen in over 200 years. Their take is The Great Depression was one designation smaller (Supercycle wave decline). While the Dark Ages was one designation larger (Millennial wave decline).

Tbh, who isn't predicting a grand decline (other than the mainstream left)? The GOP types have been predicting the bankruptcy of this decade since the 80's based on arithmetic and not waves.

[Simple Minded]

FWIW Mr. P, you agree with the EWers more often than you are aware. Kinda like Tinker and Ayn Rand in that regard. The EWers are predicting a Grand Supercycle wave decline. Bigger than anything the West has seen in over 200 years. Their take is The Great Depression was one designation smaller (Supercycle wave decline). While the Dark Ages was one designation larger (Millennial wave decline).

Tbh, who isn't predicting a grand decline (other than the mainstream left)? The GOP types have been predicting the bankruptcy of this decade since the 80's based on arithmetic and not waves.

Good point.

For as far back as I can remember, 40-45 years?, somebody somewhere has been predicting the iminent Age of Aquarius and/or Armegeddon pretty much every day.

Sooner or later, they will all be right. Till then, always abide by the "Tomato Plant Principle," and you'll probably do fairly well.


"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

Needless to say (hey, isn't everything?), some people are going to be showing up to a gun fight with a Twinkie, but hey, who said life is fair?

[Dioscuri]

Aaaahh, you bozos never cease to amaze us. How is it possible for people to be both so amusing and so tedious at the same time? Incredible how far you're able to convince yourselves (and each other) that you're actually thinking about things when your root-level categories are fucked beyond recognition, and all that's occurring in your meagre little skulls is the endless recirculation of masturbatory verbiage.

Let's start with money. Mr. P would have us believe that a total societal collapse is in the offing, and so his plan for this contingency is to become a "banker for survivalists," which of course presumes the continued existence and recognition of money, and therefore of society. How are these transactions to be conducted? Are not survivalists, by definition, people who seek to live as isolated from high-population zones as possible? Do not survivalists seek to live "self-sufficiently", so as to avoid having to transport themselves across unfamiliar territory? ... Oh, of course! The Internet! What was I thinking? Obviously, self-sufficient post-apocalypticians will do their post-societal banking with Mr. P online.

When the societal collapse motif becomes too moronic to kick any farther, you return to an idea of a slower decline. Let's call this the "Shitshack" idea for short. The crucial feature here is that society does not completely collapse, Money still rules. So the rich will sit on their money, and the not-rich will die in their shitshacks. Seems legit. But your ability to stroke this turd depends upon an ambiguity: what is the political arrangement here? Has the government gone bankrupt? If that's the case, you'll have millions of muscular blacks and Mexicans streaming out of all those prisons located in white rural communities, and if Money still rules, then people are going to be going for that Money! Good thing the rich are securely protected by a robust law enforcement infrastructure so-... oh, right. Gov default, no law enforcement. Well then, good thing the rich are... um... well golly, I sure hope nobody starts telling all the shitshackers and ex-cons where all the money and valuables can be gotten, cuz with no Big Gov to enforce property rights... Yikes! Better not think too hard about that one!

So we better stay safe by thinking about a slow decline with Gov still fulfilling its essential functions like keeping muscular darkies locked up. No worries here, Money still rules ... but, golly, Big Gov will have to pay for itself somehow. Where did all the money go?

And then it becomes a simple matter of liquidating the investor class by political force. Something Mademoiselle Parfait and Simpleton cannot even conceive of. Far easier to believe in people being content to die in shitshacks than cutting their cable TV subscriptions and voting not-Republican.

But! But! But! Haha, Gov will never go after the Money, cuz if they do that, all the Money people will just GO GALT.

Go Galt, conversation over. Simpleminded as that.

Except for the fact that, well, what are they going Galt FOR? To preserve the holy sign of the Dollar from the slavering rapist Gov. So if they Go Galt, and the Sign of the Dollar is preserved, then other people just get into the game and occupy the markets that Galt hath abandoned, because ... well, because it's Money, and everyone goes after the Money! So if the Galts decide they're not going after the Money anymore, than someone else will, and so their gesture is meaningless.

Golly, what is a Galt to do?

[Mr. Perfect]

Good point.

For as far back as I can remember, 40-45 years?, somebody somewhere has been predicting the iminent Age of Aquarius and/or Armegeddon pretty much every day.

No, they were specific claims of bankruptcy as the boomers retired. Coming to pass a little sooner than expected.

[Mr. Perfect]

Aaaahh, you bozos never cease to amaze us. How is it possible for people to be both so amusing and so tedious at the same time? Incredible how far you're able to convince yourselves (and each other) that you're actually thinking about things when your root-level categories are fucked beyond recognition, and all that's occurring in your meagre little skulls is the endless recirculation of masturbatory verbiage.

If you have something to say why not come out and say it.

Let's start with money. Mr. P would have us believe that a total societal collapse is in the offing, and so his plan for this contingency is to become a "banker for survivalists," which of course presumes the continued existence and recognition of money, and therefore of society. How are these transactions to be conducted? Are not survivalists, by definition, people who seek to live as isolated from high-population zones as possible? Do not survivalists seek to live "self-sufficiently", so as to avoid having to transport themselves across unfamiliar territory? ... Oh, of course! The Internet! What was I thinking? Obviously, self-sufficient post-apocalypticians will do their post-societal banking with Mr. P online.

d, sorry to say, you haven't thought any of this through yet.

Banking has been going on for thousands of years even among subsistence peasants before paper money. So it will be again. We may use plastic spoons or what have you, but the necessity to finance capital will always be there, and I'll be there with it.

The survivalist strategy is isolation for a year or so while all of you die off and then a return to some kind of agrarian society or whatever can be cobbled together afterward. I will loan these people money, in whatever form it takes at that time.

When the societal collapse motif becomes too moronic to kick any farther, you return to an idea of a slower decline. Let's call this the "Shitshack" idea for short.

I like the sound of that. Cute term. Whoever came up with that deserves a gold star.

The crucial feature here is that society does not completely collapse, Money still rules. So the rich will sit on their money, and the not-rich will die in their shitshacks. Seems legit. But your ability to stroke this turd depends upon an ambiguity: what is the political arrangement here? Has the government gone bankrupt? If that's the case, you'll have millions of muscular blacks and Mexicans streaming out of all those prisons located in white rural communities, and if Money still rules, then people are going to be going for that Money! Good thing the rich are securely protected by a robust law enforcement infrastructure so-... oh, right. Gov default, no law enforcement. Well then, good thing the rich are... um... well golly, I sure hope nobody starts telling all the shitshackers and ex-cons where all the money and valuables can be gotten, cuz with no Big Gov to enforce property rights... Yikes! Better not think too hard about that one!

Actually a little bit of thinking brings some peace of mind. Historically looters never make it 5 miles from any major road according to my research, and while there is some wiggle room on what constitutes a major road there isn't that much wiggle room.

So will left wing $#!tshackers liquidate some rich white Lexus Libs on the other side of the tracks? Oh yeah, sure will. But not any of the others.

There was this guy named Orpheus, he warned me about the roving gangs of non-whites. I thought he could have a point so I looked into it. Turns out probably about 2/3 of the counties in the US are completely looter free, maybe more.

Will leftists eat each other to death? Of course, but there is nothing new about that.

So we better stay safe by thinking about a slow decline with Gov still fulfilling its essential functions like keeping muscular darkies locked up. No worries here, Money still rules ... but, golly, Big Gov will have to pay for itself somehow. Where did all the money go?

And then it becomes a simple matter of liquidating the investor class by political force. Something Mademoiselle Parfait and Simpleton cannot even conceive of. Far easier to believe in people being content to die in shitshacks than cutting their cable TV subscriptions and voting not-Republican.

The "investor class" as most people understand it are almost all Harvard Democrat types. Liquidate all you want, I'll provide the movement with names and where to find them.

But! But! But! Haha, Gov will never go after the Money, cuz if they do that, all the Money people will just GO GALT.

Go Galt, conversation over. Simpleminded as that.

Except for the fact that, well, what are they going Galt FOR? To preserve the holy sign of the Dollar from the slavering rapist Gov. So if they Go Galt, and the Sign of the Dollar is preserved, then other people just get into the game and occupy the markets that Galt hath abandoned, because ... well, because it's Money, and everyone goes after the Money! So if the Galts decide they're not going after the Money anymore, than someone else will, and so their gesture is meaningless.

Golly, what is a Galt to do?

Nothing. That's the whole point. Just do nothing. People really misunderstand money and it's not really obvious that it can be explained here with the time alloted, but suffice it to say that in human history humans have never struggled to figure out the money once the output got going. Some people worry about the wrong things.

However I will give you credit for one thing. Your mind appears to be grappling, all on it's own (and I applaud you for that) with the idea that "collapse" comes in different forms and different gradations, and you are right. Spoken of this elsewhere, no time to get into it fully now, but for this conversation one must keep in mind that if one were to describe our current situation to someone say 10 years ago, many would have categorized us as collapsed. The collapse already happened. So one must think very, very clearly about what one means, expects, and can reasonably calculate

But most people are only focusing on the economy and are excluding geopolitics. For example, we are disarming to two countries who will not disarm and who are not in debt, and in the ancient rules of power a weak king of the hill is ripe for removal from it's rivals. Who will have nukes while we don't.

Read your Rev, Daniel and Isaiah folks. The leader who brokers the 7 year treaty is probably already in the public eye. Just sayin'.

[Ibrahim]

Aaaahh, you bozos never cease to amaze us. How is it possible for people to be both so amusing and so tedious at the same time? Incredible how far you're able to convince yourselves (and each other) that you're actually thinking about things when your root-level categories are fucked beyond recognition, and all that's occurring in your meagre little skulls is the endless recirculation of masturbatory verbiage.

*crests hill* "Hi, dudes!"

[Enki]

Mr. P I prefer your apocalyptic Christian millenialism to the non-stop Republican fervor. It's funny how when you get right down to it that apocalyptic strain is probably the single most important first principle that so many Conservatives derive their politics from.

There is no hedging in the apocalypse. In the Kingdom there will be no one to lend money to.

However, in a smaller scale collapse, I find your notion of becoming a bank intriguing, it can work on a small local level. Hell this country was built that way. If Mr. P was there to lend Ferfal some coin, how might his life have been different?

[Simple Minded]

Good point.

For as far back as I can remember, 40-45 years?, somebody somewhere has been predicting the iminent Age of Aquarius and/or Armegeddon pretty much every day.

No, they were specific claims of bankruptcy as the boomers retired. Coming to pass a little sooner than expected.

Sounds a lot like Harry Dent, IMSMO, he makes sense.

[Simple Minded]

Good point.

For as far back as I can remember, 40-45 years?, somebody somewhere has been predicting the iminent Age of Aquarius and/or Armegeddon pretty much every day.

No, they were specific claims of bankruptcy as the boomers retired. Coming to pass a little sooner than expected.

Sounds a lot like Harry Dent, IMSMO, he makes sense.

[Simple Minded]

Aaaahh, you bozos never cease to amaze us. How is it possible for people to be both so amusing and so tedious at the same time? Incredible how far you're able to convince yourselves (and each other) that you're actually thinking about things when your root-level categories are fucked beyond recognition, and all that's occurring in your meagre little skulls is the endless recirculation of masturbatory verbiage.

Let's start with money. Mr. P would have us believe that a total societal collapse is in the offing, and so his plan for this contingency is to become a "banker for survivalists," which of course presumes the continued existence and recognition of money, and therefore of society. How are these transactions to be conducted? Are not survivalists, by definition, people who seek to live as isolated from high-population zones as possible? Do not survivalists seek to live "self-sufficiently", so as to avoid having to transport themselves across unfamiliar territory? ... Oh, of course! The Internet! What was I thinking? Obviously, self-sufficient post-apocalypticians will do their post-societal banking with Mr. P online.

When the societal collapse motif becomes too moronic to kick any farther, you return to an idea of a slower decline. Let's call this the "Shitshack" idea for short. The crucial feature here is that society does not completely collapse, Money still rules. So the rich will sit on their money, and the not-rich will die in their shitshacks. Seems legit. But your ability to stroke this turd depends upon an ambiguity: what is the political arrangement here? Has the government gone bankrupt? If that's the case, you'll have millions of muscular blacks and Mexicans streaming out of all those prisons located in white rural communities, and if Money still rules, then people are going to be going for that Money! Good thing the rich are securely protected by a robust law enforcement infrastructure so-... oh, right. Gov default, no law enforcement. Well then, good thing the rich are... um... well golly, I sure hope nobody starts telling all the shitshackers and ex-cons where all the money and valuables can be gotten, cuz with no Big Gov to enforce property rights... Yikes! Better not think too hard about that one!

So we better stay safe by thinking about a slow decline with Gov still fulfilling its essential functions like keeping muscular darkies locked up. No worries here, Money still rules ... but, golly, Big Gov will have to pay for itself somehow. Where did all the money go?

And then it becomes a simple matter of liquidating the investor class by political force. Something Mademoiselle Parfait and Simpleton cannot even conceive of. Far easier to believe in people being content to die in shitshacks than cutting their cable TV subscriptions and voting not-Republican.

But! But! But! Haha, Gov will never go after the Money, cuz if they do that, all the Money people will just GO GALT.

Go Galt, conversation over. Simpleminded as that.

Except for the fact that, well, what are they going Galt FOR? To preserve the holy sign of the Dollar from the slavering rapist Gov. So if they Go Galt, and the Sign of the Dollar is preserved, then other people just get into the game and occupy the markets that Galt hath abandoned, because ... well, because it's Money, and everyone goes after the Money! So if the Galts decide they're not going after the Money anymore, than someone else will, and so their gesture is meaningless.

Golly, what is a Galt to do?

Brother D, I have no idea what you are trying to say. When in SimpleMindedStan, use little words and type slowly......

Are ya trying to say my designification-o-meter is out of cal?

Could be, I hear that one almost every day......

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

There's a mark on the pine by the side of the trail that says
15 miles to the Shitshack! Shitshack, yeah
I'm headin' down the dirt lane, lookin' for the lone hideaway
Heading for that lone hideaway, lone hideaway,
Built me a bunker, it's as big as a whale and we're headin' on down
To the Shitshack
I gots me a halftrack, it seats about 20
So come on and bring your liberty dollars.......

.......

[Mr. Perfect]

Mr. P I prefer your apocalyptic Christian millenialism to the non-stop Republican fervor. It's funny how when you get right down to it that apocalyptic strain is probably the single most important first principle that so many Conservatives derive their politics from.

There is no hedging in the apocalypse. In the Kingdom there will be no one to lend money to.

However, in a smaller scale collapse, I find your notion of becoming a bank intriguing, it can work on a small local level. Hell this country was built that way. If Mr. P was there to lend Ferfal some coin, how might his life have been different?

Well nodds has half a point, the Second Coming is probably the most optimistic outcome because as you allude to at least Jesus comes back. The other alternative is the Aztecs or Red Dawn or something perpetually awful. People like d refuse to prepare themselves for it, with their "real estate always goes up" mentality, unless someone provides a highly detailed peer reviewed white paper with specific suggestions that have been tactfully worded so as not to hurt his feeling in regard to any of his ideology being exposed as flawed, and tbh it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Watching a nation commit suicide has been alarming, if not educational. So you look at the bright spots.

The Reagan/Rand type of right winger actually is the opposite of apocalyptic, we were expecting more and more elimination of government coupled with more and more prosperity, which of course now is dead in the water. And we were wrong to expect that, Judgement Day was inevitable, just like the movie.

So the righteous will stand in holy places and watch, well everyone else, and what happens to them.

The real reason to be banker in the next iteration is to be the center of information, not for the banking revenue per se.

[Enki]

Mr. P I prefer your apocalyptic Christian millenialism to the non-stop Republican fervor. It's funny how when you get right down to it that apocalyptic strain is probably the single most important first principle that so many Conservatives derive their politics from.

There is no hedging in the apocalypse. In the Kingdom there will be no one to lend money to.

However, in a smaller scale collapse, I find your notion of becoming a bank intriguing, it can work on a small local level. Hell this country was built that way. If Mr. P was there to lend Ferfal some coin, how might his life have been different?

Well nodds has half a point, the Second Coming is probably the most optimistic outcome because as you allude to at least Jesus comes back. The other alternative is the Aztecs or Red Dawn or something perpetually awful. People like d refuse to prepare themselves for it, with their "real estate always goes up" mentality, unless someone provides a highly detailed peer reviewed white paper with specific suggestions that have been tactfully worded so as not to hurt his feeling in regard to any of his ideology being exposed as flawed, and tbh it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Watching a nation commit suicide has been alarming, if not educational. So you look at the bright spots.

The Reagan/Rand type of right winger actually is the opposite of apocalyptic, we were expecting more and more elimination of government coupled with more and more prosperity, which of course now is dead in the water. And we were wrong to expect that, Judgement Day was inevitable, just like the movie.

So the righteous will stand in holy places and watch, well everyone else, and what happens to them.

The real reason to be banker in the next iteration is to be the center of information, not for the banking revenue per se.

I think that the one lesson of the bible that is practically true and cannot be refuted is, 'stand by your community, be good to it, and it will take care of you.' and it has examples of when that was done right, and examples of when that was done wrong. Clearly Jesus was not anti-money, but he hated money to the extent that is subverted one's relationship to the spiritual. I.E. the temple was essentially for sale and they were scamming poor pilgrims at the door. I don't see that as being against money as much as it is about treating God as a commodity.

Well, banks are centers of information, that is formally what they are, they store the records of the deposits that customers make with them. That's their core function. It's a good post-apocalyptic survival strategy actually. If you can pull it off you'll do well. I am getting into data analytics in this iteration for the access to information, and because I think the evolution of money will be to a data-centric currency. Bitcoins are interesting because they are valued at the number of processor cycles it requires to generate a new bitcoin based on the bitcoin algorithm. So it is a currency that is based off of clock-cycles.

In my post-apocalypse I imagine a great number of Rainbows, Burners and Occupiers, those people are industrious as genuflect and can do a great deal with recycled materials and don't mind living communally. That is already the universe I inhabit in my social scene. After Occupy Sandy, I am a lot more optimistic about the fate of New York in a major disaster.

When a currency collapses, if you can manage a computer network, even a townwide intranet, then you can participate in sophisticated bartering. Might want to consider making your bank into a local ISP of wherever you live. Of course I do not see the level of collapse where we cease to have banks and cease to have ISPs as inevitable.

[Mr. Perfect]

Sort of. Some communities were wiped out by the Bible God, and I expect a lot more will be that way. In fact if you look at a map of blue counties those are probably, well, I hope people can put it together.

I'd never heard Alex Jones voice until a few weeks ago, didn't know anything about him, but this video has been making the rounds in certain forums and websites. A lot of the information is valuable, some of it isn't.

After about an hour into it they start talking about good places to live. There aren't very many.

jzjm9MJFSA8

[noddy]

There's a mark on the pine by the side of the trail that says
15 miles to the Shitshack! Shitshack, yeah
I'm headin' down the dirt lane, lookin' for the lone hideaway
Heading for that lone hideaway, lone hideaway,
Built me a bunker, it's as big as a whale and we're headin' on down
To the Shitshack
I gots me a halftrack, it seats about 20
So come on and bring your liberty dollars.......

.......

thats where its at.. baby.

[noddy]

New market idea, seems to me there might be a high demand for a product that chemically induces a state of indifference/apathy........ especially if we keep hire someone to keep pumping the ideas of Man Made Global Warming, rampant racism, fiscal cliff, end of the Mayan calender, life sucks, Germans/French/Chinese are out to get us, etc.

I'm thinking liquid, powder, pills, or something you could smoke just might sell..... least here in Merika, whadda think?

What would we call it?

if we can somehow steal apples art department and advertising execs we wouldnt even have to do the hard work of producing a new chemical, placebo effect is fine.. mayhaps a homeopathic reduction of something.

I have not even thought about symbology yet. But regarding marketing targets, I was thinking Zero Hedge and that new fangled internet thingy.....

Ie: Slogans; "chemical change you can believe in!" "better living thru chemistry!" "life sucks, who cares?"

Ah, sort of sullen Soma, eh? How about Mehntos? Blearios? Available now at all good apathecaries...

[noddy]

Mr. P I prefer your apocalyptic Christian millenialism to the non-stop Republican fervor. It's funny how when you get right down to it that apocalyptic strain is probably the single most important first principle that so many Conservatives derive their politics from.

There is no hedging in the apocalypse. In the Kingdom there will be no one to lend money to.

However, in a smaller scale collapse, I find your notion of becoming a bank intriguing, it can work on a small local level. Hell this country was built that way. If Mr. P was there to lend Ferfal some coin, how might his life have been different?

Well nodds has half a point, the Second Coming is probably the most optimistic outcome because as you allude to at least Jesus comes back. The other alternative is the Aztecs or Red Dawn or something perpetually awful. People like d refuse to prepare themselves for it, with their "real estate always goes up" mentality, unless someone provides a highly detailed peer reviewed white paper with specific suggestions that have been tactfully worded so as not to hurt his feeling in regard to any of his ideology being exposed as flawed, and tbh it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Watching a nation commit suicide has been alarming, if not educational. So you look at the bright spots.

The Reagan/Rand type of right winger actually is the opposite of apocalyptic, we were expecting more and more elimination of government coupled with more and more prosperity, which of course now is dead in the water. And we were wrong to expect that, Judgement Day was inevitable, just like the movie.

So the righteous will stand in holy places and watch, well everyone else, and what happens to them.

The real reason to be banker in the next iteration is to be the center of information, not for the banking revenue per se.

I think that the one lesson of the bible that is practically true and cannot be refuted is, 'stand by your community, be good to it, and it will take care of you.' and it has examples of when that was done right, and examples of when that was done wrong. Clearly Jesus was not anti-money, but he hated money to the extent that is subverted one's relationship to the spiritual. I.E. the temple was essentially for sale and they were scamming poor pilgrims at the door. I don't see that as being against money as much as it is about treating God as a commodity.

Well, banks are centers of information, that is formally what they are, they store the records of the deposits that customers make with them. That's their core function. It's a good post-apocalyptic survival strategy actually. If you can pull it off you'll do well. I am getting into data analytics in this iteration for the access to information, and because I think the evolution of money will be to a data-centric currency. Bitcoins are interesting because they are valued at the number of processor cycles it requires to generate a new bitcoin based on the bitcoin algorithm. So it is a currency that is based off of clock-cycles.

In my post-apocalypse I imagine a great number of Rainbows, Burners and Occupiers, those people are industrious as genuflect and can do a great deal with recycled materials and don't mind living communally. That is already the universe I inhabit in my social scene. After Occupy Sandy, I am a lot more optimistic about the fate of New York in a major disaster.

When a currency collapses, if you can manage a computer network, even a townwide intranet, then you can participate in sophisticated bartering. Might want to consider making your bank into a local ISP of wherever you live. Of course I do not see the level of collapse where we cease to have banks and cease to have ISPs as inevitable.

yeh, your occupy sandy experience is my lack of carefactor for government safety nets - every damn time something bad does happen in my parts (and yours it seems) it is community cooperation not government workers that do the bulk of it.. government tends to just look after the government bits.

mr p - im not really sure about your language with shitshacks versus property goes up - it does seem a tad contradictory.. i quite frankly would much rather a shitshack i own instead of a mc mansion im indebted up to my eyeballs in and even more so than living in a government provided unit.

i think the vital part missing from the mad max versus endless improvement extremes is that a hell of a lot of good tech isnt going away and its only the larger centralised versions that are in danger.

yeh yeh i know solar et all cant replace the grid but they do make shitshacks a hell of a lot more sweet than they ever used to be.

[Mr. Perfect]

mr p - im not really sure about your language with shitshacks versus property goes up - it does seem a tad contradictory..

I'm not sure what you mean.

i quite frankly would much rather a shitshack i own instead of a mc mansion im indebted up to my eyeballs in and even more so than living in a government provided unit.

IIRC my statements were to do with that you could lose a lot of money on either.

The key to real estate purchases now, if you have to make them, are holding as much value you have and liquidity. We have houses on the market around here for 1-3 years now. Bad deal.

i think the vital part missing from the mad max versus endless improvement extremes is that a hell of a lot of good tech isnt going away and its only the larger centralised versions that are in danger.

yeh yeh i know solar et all cant replace the grid but they do make shitshacks a hell of a lot more sweet than they ever used to be.

Tech can be repossessed like any other asset. A lot of people are worshiping at the altar of Moore's Law, but even Moore's Law is subject to Murphy's, financially speaking.