At least 27 die in school shooting in Connecticut | 1

[Enki]

Ever notice how this forum is mostly smug, clever urban types trying to tell abrasive provincials what to do, or chiding them for their provincial views on religion, race, etc? -said someone to a forum in ancient Greece, Rome, Baghdad, America, England, probably Ur and Mohenjo-Daro...

Hey, plenty of hicks in urban areas too. As evidenced by the, "There is no good use for a gun.", sentiment.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Ever notice how this forum is mostly smug, clever urban types trying to tell abrasive provincials what to do, or chiding them for their provincial views on religion, race, etc? -said someone to a forum in ancient Greece, Rome, Baghdad, America, England, probably Ur and Mohenjo-Daro...

Well, most people do live in cities today

Added something I meant to include that makes more sense.

[monster_gardener]

The fastest way to turn an anti-gunner into a pro gunner.

Starting at 5:45. "Curiously satisfying". So the question is how did TN own all those guns yet never murder anybody? How is that possible?

d_aSglGw88U

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Mr. Purrfect oops I mean Mr. Perfect.

Seconded.........

Even though the Nuge is Notorious as a supposed Wild & Crazy Guy.......

My guess is that he is too often laid up with Cat Scratch Fever!

nW8S58CYQqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW8S58CYQqs

But more seriously, perhaps animal therapy could help........

Pet a cat... listen to it purr........

Or a dog, rabbit or hamster........

Lower your blood pressure......

[Zack Morris]

How? Let's say I own 25 guns and then I own 20, how will the homicide rate drop?

Probably not by quite as much as the difference between 5 suicidal maniacs owning 5 guns and 5 suicidal maniacs owning 0 guns. Now, let's try another thought experiment: if you own 25 guns and the government manages to take away 25 of them, would the 10 year gun homicide rate increase or decrease?

[Zack Morris]

Ever notice how this forum is mostly smug, clever urban types trying to tell abrasive provincials what to do, or chiding them for their provincial views on religion, race, etc? -said someone to a forum in ancient Greece, Rome, Baghdad, America, England, probably Ur and Mohenjo-Daro...

Well, most people do live in cities today

It doesn't matter. The abrasive provincial minority claim to be the vital factor behind America's economic success and political tradition. All of us city slickers are parasites leeching off of their immense productivity.

[Zack Morris]

What about the plethora of these incidents in the US? How do they make you feel? It still baffles me when people think that the way to stop people breaking the law against murder is to pass another against having a murder weapon.

There is law and then there is enforcement. Gun control requires strict enforcement. And besides passing laws, a lot more could be done in the way of local programs designed to get guns off the street, such as cash trades and so forth.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Surprising that people who whine about the violence caused by drug prohibition, and fans of Boardwalk Empire, want to beef up the gun running black market by banning something else.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

People who despise the department of homeland security because they think it targets Muslims want to triple the ATF's budget because they think they will target white Christians in Kansas.

[monster_gardener]

Gun-related homicides will drop, as is the case in other industrialized nations that have very restricted access to weapons. As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan makes me feel better.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Zack Morris.

And Thank You VERY MUCH for some of the excellent posts you have elsewhere on the forum.

However........

As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan

Emphasis added by MG

Considering recent history especially the 20th Century, I suspect the case is different if German and other Government Sponsored Were-Wolves wearing Funky Fylflots * on their uniforms are considered

And too many of their victims acted like Sheep for the Slaughter......

When the Werewolves should have been met by Defiance and Silver Bullets

Perhaps there would have been more if the Gun laws of Germany were like those of Uz........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_%282008_film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielski_partisans

Lots of Incidents much worse than this..... Millions killed........

* Swastika
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylfot

[Dioscuri]

How quickly these discussion turn from any concept of personal responsibility and accountability to blamerican (great word borrowed from Dioscuri) society.

Y-uh-huh, all us weak little nanny-state dependents think it's all about SOCIETY, where a good solid man knows hisself some knowledge about "responsibility and accountability."

And it probably would be one of those little dependent losers who'd ask something like, "Responsibility to what?" "Accountability to who?" And a good solid man's gotta tell him right back, "TO YOURSELF."

And then the loser asks, "Wow, where'd you hear about this Response-Accounting thing? From yourself?"

[Zack Morris]

Surprising that people who whine about the violence caused by drug prohibition, and fans of Boardwalk Empire, want to beef up the gun running black market by banning something else.

Yeah, it's just like when they banned automatic weapons and violent machine gun running operations sprang up. Oh, wait...
The demand for weapons is very different than demand for alcohol or drugs.

[Simple Minded]

People who despise the department of homeland security because they think it targets Muslims want to triple the ATF's budget because they think they will target white Christians in Kansas.

Well, before you get behind more laws to control them people..... ya gotta identify them people....

[Zack Morris]

People who despise the department of homeland security because they think it targets Muslims want to triple the ATF's budget because they think they will target white Christians in Kansas.

Well, the midwest and and south are very violent places, are they not?

[Simple Minded]

How quickly these discussion turn from any concept of personal responsibility and accountability to blamerican (great word borrowed from Dioscuri) society.

Y-uh-huh, all us weak little nanny-state dependents think it's all about SOCIETY, where a good solid man knows hisself some knowledge about "responsibility and accountability."

And it probably would be one of those little dependent losers who'd ask something like, "Responsibility to what?" "Accountability to who?" And a good solid man's gotta tell him right back, "TO YOURSELF."

And then the loser asks, "Wow, where'd you hear about this Response-Accounting thing? From yourself?"

Excellent!

Love it brother! Love it.

Glad to sea yuse fenally gettin yerslf a sens of hoomer!!! Thanks fer using small werds and typin slow...

[Zack Morris]

Gun-related homicides will drop, as is the case in other industrialized nations that have very restricted access to weapons. As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan makes me feel better.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Zack Morris.

And Thank You VERY MUCH for some the excellent posts you have elsewhere on the forum.

However........

As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan

Considering recent history especially the 20th Century, I suspect the case is different if German and other Government Sponsored Were-Wolves wearing Funky Fylflots * on their uniforms are considered

And too many of their victims acted like Sheep for the Slaughter......

When the Werewolves should have been met by Defiance and Silver Bullets

Perhaps there would have been more if the Gun laws of Germany were like those of Uz........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_%282008_film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielski_partisans

Lots of Incidents much worse than this..... Millions killed........

* Swastika
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylfot

The uprisings in Poland ended up getting more people killed. In the 1940's, insurgent tactics didn't work all that well because they were met with carpet bombing as a response (which is politically untenable today). Rifles would not have saved the Jews and would probably have gotten more people killed.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

People who despise the department of homeland security because they think it targets Muslims want to triple the ATF's budget because they think they will target white Christians in Kansas.

Well, the midwest and and south are very violent places, are they not?

Do you really want to get into where the most violent places in the US are? Or the most violent demographics? Think carefully before answering. Try to remember that when you post statistics about gun violence, you mostly aren't talking about white boys shooting up classroms...

[Zack Morris]

Okay, so the midwest isn't quite as bad as I thought. It's interesting to note that the northeast is the most densely populated and urbanized part of the United States, and includes such wonderful, safe places as New Jersey, Baltimore, and Philly.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

A certain class of people has been crying "how come the Us isn't more like Europe?" for oh about 200 years...

[Mr. Perfect]

Probably not by quite as much as the difference between 5 suicidal maniacs owning 5 guns and 5 suicidal maniacs owning 0 guns.

Homicidal maniacs acquire guns even in nations where they are controlled, so your scenario is not possible in this universe.

And I need guns to protect myself from such people, we see the world over that the government cannot guarantee my protection me from such people.

Now, let's try another thought experiment: if you own 25 guns and the government manages to take away 25 of them, would the 10 year gun homicide rate increase or decrease?

No known answer because among other things, it depends on how the guns were eliminated. I mean we may as well ask the effect on society if the government started a war on drugs and managed to get rid of them all.

And irrelevant for people concerned with murder. We don't care how you die, it's the dying that matters and what we want to stop.

[Simple Minded]

Gun-related homicides will drop, as is the case in other industrialized nations that have very restricted access to weapons. As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan makes me feel better.

What about the plethora of these incidents in the US? How do they make you feel? It still baffles me when people think that the way to stop people breaking the law against murder is to pass another against having a murder weapon.

I think a lot of it is nothing more than "I didn't grow up with guns, so people who are comfortable with guns make me uncomfortable!" Same with "I don't know any Muslims or Vegans, so I am uncomfortable around them."

If somethng is not part of your life, it is difficult to understand how it may fit into the life of others.

I have no idea of Zack's background, but with 90% of the "anti-gun" people I know personally, the above statement is true.

Rethinking the above post... After recalling a few conversations I have with people who have moved from Hicksville to NYC or Palo Alto and back to Hicksville, and recalling that they were pro-gun while in red cities/counties, anti-gun while in blue cities/counties, and pro-gun when back in red cities/counties. I think it may have more to do with population density than ideology.

Last time I saw stats, you were 4 to 6 times more likely to get killed by a gun in blue America than red America. I recall proposing to my friend in Palo Alto, that the obvious solution to gun crime is don't sell guns to democrats.

So if it is about ideology, than the obvious conclusion is not that blue people don't trust red people to own guns, but that blue people don't trust other blue people to own guns. Red people seem to trust other red people, but if a red person moves into a blue area, they become blue (or if they are really sophisticated, bleu), and then red again when they move back.

Or maybe it has something to do with contaminates in the local water supply.....

[Ammianus]

http://www.theatlantic.com/ta-nehisi-coates/

As I've said before I really don't have anything against self-defense. (My Pops is veteran of both the Vietnam War and the Black Panther party.) But I'm not sure that, in America, people lack the capacity to defend themselves. As Jeff's own reporting shows, the country is awash in guns. What the country is not awash in is people who have the desire to carry guns on their person. With that in mind, it's worth gaming this out and not simply asking whether we should encourage more people to carry guns, but what such a world would look like.

It is human to wish that Dawn Hochsprung, the principal of Sandy Hook Elementary, who died heroically yesterday, enjoyed some weaponry beyond her body. But are we then asking for a world in which the educators of small children are strapped? Do we want our hospital workers, our librarians, our baby-sitters, and little league coaches all armed? What is the message that such a society sends to itself and its children? What does it say about its government's ability to perform the most essential of services--protection? And is it enough to simply be wholly sane? What do we say to the ghost of Jordan Davis, shot down over an argument of loud music, by a man who was quite sane? And where does it end? If more mass killers don body-armor, should we then start fitting ourselves in kevlar too?

This is not my area of expertise, so I am open to your thoughts. But I would hope to not live in a country where it is easier for a kid to access a gun, than it is for an adult to access the vote.

It's funny that if the gunkulters simply rested on their argument that outright banning of those weapons won't exactly solve the problem in the first place, they'll actually be in a somewhat reasonable position. But instead, they decide enough wasn't enough and proceed to step on the dick of their own argument (to plagiarize Greg Cochrane) and proclaim on the contrary that more guns will actually solve the problem when the reality is so very much otherwise.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

It is not an essential service of government to provide protection. It is an essential function of the government to execute justice. It is the responsibility of each citizens to protect himself. Only a cowed and effeminate citzenry would say something like that(although I suspect women understand defending precious things more than these broken men).

If you want the government to provide protection, move to Detroit and ask for Robocop.

[Doc]

Okay, so the midwest isn't quite as bad as I thought. It's interesting to note that the northeast is the most densely populated and urbanized part of the United States, and includes such wonderful, safe places as New Jersey, Baltimore, and Philly.

Yet in teh democratic machine town:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/us/ra ... d=all&_r=0

Not to mention the irony that Connecticut has some of the most restrictive guns laws in the US.

[Demon of Undoing]

I find it interesting that, in MrPs world, a total gun ban with house-by- house confiscation has already been enacted, apparently just to spite me.

They had an assault weapons ban once. It did no such thing. It was also gutted within a comparatively brief period.

I remember a rational and long- viewed Mr P. Wonder what happened to him.

[monster_gardener]

It is not an essential service of government to provide protection. It is an essential function of the government to execute justice. It is the responsibility of each citizens to protect himself. Only a cowed and effeminate citzenry would say something like that(although I suspect women understand defending precious things more than these broken men).

If you want the government to provide protection, move to Detroit and ask for Robocop.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Juggernaut.

I like Robocop

But not enough to move to Detroit.........

A favorite Robocop scene where a wannabe "rocket scientist" robber decides to rob a Donut Shop

gaUqdIFUbxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaUqdIFUbxE

Doesn't work out so well for him but unfortunately not bad enough......