Margaret Thatcher, England's Iron Lady Dies - Rest in Peace

[Marcus]

I'm back to the Ibs the sociopath explanation, any ideas?

Yes . . .

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[Ibrahim]

Thatcher was a bad person, and I'm not exactly the only person who thinks so. If people on this forum are going to blow off murdering Afghan children, I don't really see a problem celebrating the death of one horrible old woman after a long and malicious life.




Reagan too, though you get the idea he was more of the simpleton tool of more sinister, smarter men. Thatcher, to her credit, was awful on her own initiative. They didn't care about their victims, I don't care about them.

[Azrael]

Thatcher was a bad person, and I'm not exactly the only person who thinks so. If people on this forum are going to blow off murdering Afghan children, I don't really see a problem celebrating the death of one horrible old woman after a long and malicious life.

Good point.

And I'm sure that the people of Iraq will rejoice when W and boot-licker Tony join their master in hell.

Reagan too, though you get the idea he was more of the simpleton tool of more sinister, smarter men.

Like daddy Bush, Alex Haig and Dick Pipes.

Thatcher, to her credit, was awful on her own initiative.

Although she did help restore democracy to Argentina, much to the dismay of Reagan. Granted, that was not her intent; but it was still better than anything Reagan or either Bush ever did.

They didn't care about their victims, I don't care about them.

+1

[Mr. Perfect]

Leftists know how to keep it classy.

[monster_gardener]

Thank You Very Much for Maintaining the Forum, Admins Typhoon and YMix

Margaret Thatcher on Climate Change -

Had looked this up right after my previous humorous post about Margaret Thatcher being a "hard scientist chemist" & Chromium Stainless Steel Lady but didn't post it......

At that time, this 2010 article was the most recent post. Since then more articles on this subject are popping up like hot air balloons

Margaret Thatcher was the first leader to warn of global warming - but also the first to see the flaws in the climate change orthodoxy
Lady Thatcher at the launch of her book 'Statecraft'

Pointing out the problems: Lady Thatcher's 'Statecraft' highlighted the flaws in the climate change orthodoxy Photo: AFP/GETTY

By Christopher Booker

5:24PM BST 12 Jun 2010

A persistent claim made by believers in man-made global warming – they were at it again last week – is that no politician was more influential in launching the worldwide alarm over climate change than Margaret Thatcher. David Cameron, so the argument runs, is simply following in her footsteps by committing the Tory party to its present belief in the dangers of global warming, and thus showing himself in this respect, if few others, to be a loyal Thatcherite.

The truth behind this story is much more interesting than is generally realised, not least because it has a fascinating twist. Certainly, Mrs Thatcher was the first world leader to voice alarm over global warming, back in 1988, With her scientific background, she had fallen under the spell of Sir Crispin Tickell, then our man at the UN. In the 1970s, he had written a book warning that the world was cooling, but he had since become an ardent convert to the belief that it was warming, Under his influence, as she recorded in her memoirs, she made a series of speeches, in Britain and to world bodies, calling for urgent international action, and citing evidence given to the US Senate by the arch-alarmist Jim Hansen, head of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

She found equally persuasive the views of a third prominent convert to the cause, Dr John Houghton, then head of the UK Met Office. She backed him in the setting up of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 1988, and promised the Met Office lavish funding for its Hadley Centre, which she opened in 1990, as a world authority on "human-induced climate change".

Hadley then linked up with East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit (CRU) to become custodians of the most prestigious of the world's surface temperature records (alongside another compiled by Dr Hansen). This became the central nexus of influence driving a worldwide scare over global warming; and so it remains to this day – not least thanks to the key role of Houghton (now Sir John) in shaping the first three mammoth reports which established the IPCC's unequalled authority on the subject.

In bringing this about, Mrs Thatcher played an important part. It is not widely appreciated, however, that there was a dramatic twist to her story. In 2003, towards the end of her last book, Statecraft, in a passage headed "Hot Air and Global Warming", she issued what amounts to an almost complete recantation of her earlier views.
Related Articles

She voiced precisely the fundamental doubts about the warming scare that have since become familiar to us. Pouring scorn on the "doomsters", she questioned the main scientific assumptions used to drive the scare, from the conviction that the chief force shaping world climate is CO2, rather than natural factors such as solar activity, to exaggerated claims about rising sea levels. She mocked Al Gore and the futility of "costly and economically damaging" schemes to reduce CO2 emissions. She cited the 2.5C rise in temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period as having had almost entirely beneficial effects. She pointed out that the dangers of a world getting colder are far worse than those of a CO2-enriched world growing warmer. She recognised how distortions of the science had been used to mask an anti-capitalist, Left-wing political agenda which posed a serious threat to the progress and prosperity of mankind.

In other words, long before it became fashionable, Lady Thatcher was converted to the view of those who, on both scientific and political grounds, are profoundly sceptical of the climate change ideology. Alas, what she set in train earlier continues to exercise its baleful influence to this day. But the fact that she became one of the first and most prominent of "climate sceptics" has been almost entirely buried from view.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... eptic.html

[Ibrahim]

boot-licker Tony

Blair is a surprisingly awful person the more you learn about him.

A talking head on BBC International was saying that one of the legacies of the Thatcher-era Conservative party was that its success also poisoned Labour.

[monster_gardener]

Thatcher was a bad person, and I'm not exactly the only person who thinks so. If people on this forum are going to blow off murdering Afghan children, I don't really see a problem celebrating the death of one horrible old woman after a long and malicious life.




Reagan too, though you get the idea he was more of the simpleton tool of more sinister, smarter men. Thatcher, to her credit, was awful on her own initiative. They didn't care about their victims, I don't care about them.

Thanks for your post, Ibs.

Thatcher was a bad person,

No surprise that you think so.

She disagreed with what you believe and was effective about it.

From your posts, you feel similarly about many people including especially quite a few forum members

They disagreeing with you....

And you considering yourself as you have written : "I'm a better man than you in every conceivable way and you know it."

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1861&start=25#p51281

Wondering to what percentage of the world you think that is applicable


And I do doubt your psychic powers because of that "and you know it."..........

I don't think so and from the evidence in their posts here, neither do others......

I don't really see a problem celebrating the death of one horrible old woman after a long and malicious life.

Not that I agree about Maggie........

But I don't object to the celebrating because it exposes other horrible people

Including but not limited to those in the photo........

[Azrael]

boot-licker Tony

Blair is a surprisingly awful person the more you learn about him.

Indeed. Or perhaps it is his Lady Macbeth wife. They more or less made a movie about them.

L_AerBW0EcI

A talking head on BBC International was saying that one of the legacies of the Thatcher-era Conservative party was that its success also poisoned Labour.

Indeed.

[monster_gardener]

boot-licker Tony

Blair is a surprisingly awful person the more you learn about him.

A talking head on BBC International was saying that one of the legacies of the Thatcher-era Conservative party was that its success also poisoned Labour.

Thanks for your post, Ibs.

one of the legacies of the Thatcher-era Conservative party was that its success also poisoned Labour.

How is that possible unless Labour valued success at the polls and the will of the voters more than the opinions you hold?

Blair is a surprisingly awful person the more you learn about him.

Not really........

Your post just lead me to do some quick brush up research on him.......

There was some amusing funky stuff such as the re-birthing ceremony but this story had me liking him more.......

He reported his Palestinian guide as bemoaning the fate of his nation looking to heaven and saying “Moses, Jesus, Mohammed: why did they all have to come here?" For Blair the Holy City is "a good place to reflect on religion: a source of so much inspiration; an excuse for so much evil."[

This was also interesting........

Later on, Blair questioned the Pope's attitude towards homosexuality, arguing that religious leaders must start "rethinking" the issue.[196] He was later rebuked by Vincent Nichols, the new archbishop of Westminster, who said that Catholic thinking was 'rather different' from the kind promoted by the former prime minister.[197]

On 22 December 2007, it was disclosed that Blair, who in 1996, had been reprimanded by Cardinal Basil Hume for receiving Holy Communion at Mass despite not being a Catholic, in contravention of canon law,[198] had converted to the Catholic faith, and that it was "a private matter".[199][200] He had informed Pope Benedict XVI on 23 June 2007 that he wanted to become a Catholic. The Pope and his advisors criticised some of Blair's political actions, but followed up with a reportedly unprecedented red-carpet welcome, which included Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, who would be responsible for Blair's Catholic instruction.

So Aw Shucks, IIRC Tony and you might even have similar gay opinions

And while Tony Blair like me be a Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey if saved, saved by the Grace of G_d and not his own efforts.........

So IMVHO are Awful Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkeys who think him "awful"..........

NOTE: Awful is a favorite word of mine.

IIRC the King of England told Sir Christopher Wren, the architect of St. Paul's Cathedral in London that it was "awful and artificial"

By which he meant that St. Paul's Catherdral was "awesome and ingenious"

The language has changed.........



OTOH, I am told that the name for the Russian Czar, Ivan the Terrible, can also be translated "Ivan the Awe Inspiring"

[Alexis]

Proposal for a worthy tribute to the memory of Baronness Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times.

Mass Unemployment, factory closures, communities destroyed – this is her legacy. She was a fighter and her enemy was the British working class. Her victories were aided by the politically corrupt leaders of the Labour Party and of many Trades Unions. It is because of policies begun by her that we are in this mess today.

Other prime ministers have followed her path, notably Tony Blair. She was the organ grinder, he was the monkey.

Remember she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet.

How should we honor her? Let’s privatize her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It’s what she would have wanted.

[Mr. Perfect]

The left is more suicidal than I ever imagined possible.

[Taboo]

The outpouring of hatred over the death of a democratically elected official who has been out of power for over two decades is both surprising and instructive.

I can't really speak on my take on her historic legacy (England and Northern Ireland in the 1980s bores me), but to blame her for the excesses of the financial markets three decades down the road seems a bit rich. There were other governments since, you know. In the UK, prime-ministers are virtually guaranteed a parliamentary majority. If her policies were that bad, they could presumably have been changed. I think Blair is a more likely culprit there.

[Ibrahim]

Are people blaming her for the 2008 crash or other contemporary economic issues? Most of the delight in her death is based on her actions within the UK and her support for various dictators overseas during her time in office.

[Azrael]

Proposal for a worthy tribute to the memory of Baronness Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times.

Mass Unemployment, factory closures, communities destroyed – this is her legacy. She was a fighter and her enemy was the British working class. Her victories were aided by the politically corrupt leaders of the Labour Party and of many Trades Unions. It is because of policies begun by her that we are in this mess today.

Other prime ministers have followed her path, notably Tony Blair. She was the organ grinder, he was the monkey.

Remember she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet.

How should we honor her? Let’s privatize her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It’s what she would have wanted.

What a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, her supporters are too hypocritical to agree to it.

[Azrael]

Are people blaming her for the 2008 crash or other contemporary economic issues? Most of the delight in her death is based on her actions within the UK and her support for various dictators overseas during her time in office.

That's true.

To give the devil her due , she was less of a dictator supporter than Reagan was. Reagan supported the Argentine junta, while Thatcher fought a war against them and won, leading to the fall of the junta. But in general, her foreign policy was pretty bad.

[Ibrahim]

The Falklands was a no-brainer. People argue about her ordering that fleeing ship sunk, but in principle defending the Falklands against the Argentine junta was completely reasonable.

It's a bit like Churchill. He was generally evil and wrong about every single thing in his entire lifetime except Hitler. Thatcher was generally evil and wrong about every single thing in her lifetime except the Falklands. Though as far as great enemies go Hitler ranks above the junta, thus most people like Churchill and only some people like Thatcher.

[Taboo]

Are people blaming her for the 2008 crash or other contemporary economic issues?

See Alexis' post above. I was expecting Alexis to praise her for valiantly fighting against the Euro, but apparently no.

Most of the delight in her death

A real insight for me.

is based on her actions within the UK

Privatization, reducing the power of the unions, and removing the idea that the state had a duty to provide guaranteed housing for everyone? As an eastern-European, I don't exactly see how that was a bad thing.

and her support for various dictators overseas during her time in office.

Are you referring to Gorbachev, or the Argentinian junta? Perhaps she should have been more like Jimmy Carter, would that have been better?

[Ibrahim]

Are people blaming her for the 2008 crash or other contemporary economic issues?

See Alexis' post above. I was expecting Alexis to praise her for valiantly fighting against the Euro, but apparently no.

I didn't get the sense that he was blaming her for present difficulties, but for moving the country politically to the right.

Most of the delight in her death

A real insight for me.

You need to talk to more British people. A British-born doctor I know had been saving a bottle of Dom Perrignon for years.

is based on her actions within the UK

Privatization, reducing the power of the unions, and removing the idea that the state had a duty to provide guaranteed housing for everyone? As an eastern-European, I don't exactly see how that was a bad thing.

Its a given that if you're on some textbook neo-con agenda of privatization and weakening labor then she's a hero.

and her support for various dictators overseas during her time in office.

Are you referring to Gorbachev, or the Argentinian junta? Perhaps she should have been more like Jimmy Carter, would that have been better?

Carter was much better than Thatcher, both in and especially after office. As for dictators, I'm referring to her opposition to the ANC and referring to Mandela as a terrorist, and her staunch support of Pinochet. There are others (Suharto IIRC) but those are the most famous examples of being wrong and supporting evil regimes.

[Mr. Perfect]

Carter, better for who, Iranians, Soviets, or Americans? Does anyone remember a little thing called the Cold War or are we discussing support of satellites in a low information zone.

[Torchwood]

I now recall that Britain was "bankrupt" in 1976 and had to be "rescued" by the IMF.

Former PM Thatcher's policies were, again from what I recall, a response to this situation.

Although one could argue that deregulation of the financial industry has lead to a similar situation today.

Ah, the 70s, I remember them well. Strikes all the time, IRA bombs, inflation up to 25%, the pound was worth sod all, all the products you bought were sh*t quality; yet my wife and i could buy a little house in a decent London suburb on a modest income, you only worked 9-5 (that was part of the problem) - and the music was good, and people still got married.

In the 80s she was my heroine, because she existed as a reaction to the hard left, who were winning the game till then and making the country ungovernable. Her influence was immense, more so than Reagan, who the rest of the world regarded as dangerous and brainless (which he wasn't). Even the European left bought into the narrative as all politics veered sharply to the right as far as economics were concerned (she was never a serious social conservative - indeed she was really a 19C liberal rather than a true conservative).

Now I am not so sure, but then was then and it was the best response at the time. Yes, she and Reagan did kick start the FIRE economy, who guessed it would last thirty years before it blew up. There are still certain myths about Maggie. She never touched the welfare state. In the mid 90s (by which time her policies were finally bearing fruit) manufacturing in the UK was 26% of GDP compared to 28% in 1979 when she came to power - today it is only 13% and we are running a trade deficit in a recession because we have sod all capacity left to export. The same has happened in the US and that socialist paradise, France. Addiction to cheap Chinese goods may have been a worse disease than addiction to easy loans.

[Simple Minded]

...... The same has happened in the US and that socialist paradise, France. Addiction to cheap Chinese goods may have been a worse disease than addiction to easy loans.

Bravo Torchwood. One of the most astute observations I have ever read on this site.

How often we search for others to blame reather than our own faults.

In bull markets we seek heroes to worship, in bear markets we seek villains to crucify!

"No man was ever deceived so much by another as by himself!"

[Ibrahim]

ANC member Pallo Jordan remembering his meeting with Thatcher:

In the end I sat with her in her office with Nelson Mandela in 1991. She knew she had no choice. Although she called us a terrorist organization, she had to shake hands with a terrorist and sit down with a terrorist. So who won?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... cher-death

[monster_gardener]

ANC member Pallo Jordan remembering his meeting with Thatcher:

In the end I sat with her in her office with Nelson Mandela in 1991. She knew she had no choice. Although she called us a terrorist organization, she had to shake hands with a terrorist and sit down with a terrorist. So who won?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... cher-death

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

And for the link from whence this comes..........

Thatcher joined Ronald Reagan in a policy of "constructive engagement" to seek reform from a government that they saw as a bulwark against Soviet-backed communism in Africa. Refusing to back sanctions, Thatcher infamously dismissed the African National Congress (ANC) as "a typical terrorist organisation".

........

But the end of the cold war made the bulwark argument obsolete and, like FW de Klerk, Thatcher had to bow to the inevitable. She welcomed Nelson Mandela to Downing Street a few months after his release from prison. In 2006, David Cameron met Mandela and admitted the Conservatives had been wrong.

On Monday, Jacob Zuma, the South African president and a former political prisoner, issued a statement expressing his "heartfelt condolences" on Thatcher's death. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of Lady Thatcher and the people of the United Kingdom during this difficult time," he said.

And speaking of terrorists, just for the record, would you consider Winnie Mandela, ANC Leader and wife to Nelson Mandela, a terrorist, and an organization that has her as a leader, a terrorist organization given this :

Her reputation was damaged by such rhetoric as that displayed in a speech she gave in Munsieville on 13 April 1986, where she endorsed the practice of necklacing (burning people alive using tyres and petrol). She said, "with our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country."[8] Further tarnishing her reputation were accusations by her bodyguard, Jerry Musivuzi Richardson, that she had ordered the kidnapping and murder.[3] On 29 December 1988, Richardson, who was coach of the Mandela United Football Club (MUFC), which acted as Mrs. Mandela's personal security detail, abducted 14-year-old James Seipei (also known as Stompie Moeketsi) and three other youths from the home of a Methodist minister, Rev. Paul Verryn, claiming she had the youths taken to her home because she suspected the reverend was sexually abusing them. The four were beaten to get them to admit to having had sex with the minister. Seipei was accused of being an informer, and his body later found in a field with stab wounds to the throat on 6 January 1989.[9] [10]

In 1991, she was convicted of kidnapping and being an accessory to assault in connection with the death of Seipei. Her six-year jail sentence was reduced to a fine on appeal. The final report of the South African Truth and Reconciliation commission, issued in 1998, found "Ms Winnie Madikizela Mandela politically and morally accountable for the gross violations of human rights committed by the MUFC."[11] In 1992, she was accused of ordering the murder of Dr. Abu-Baker Asvat, a family friend who had examined Seipei at Mandela's house, after Sepei had been abducted but before he had been killed.[12] Mandela's role was later probed as part of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings, in 1997.[13] She was said to have paid the equivalent of $8,000 and supplied the firearm used in the killing, which took place on 27 January 1989.[14] The hearings were later adjourned amid claims that witnesses were being intimidated on Mandela's orders.[15]

Also...........

On 24 April 2003, Winnie Mandela was found guilty on 43 counts of fraud and 25 of theft, and her broker, Addy Moolman, was convicted on 58 counts of fraud and 25 of theft. Both had pleaded not guilty to the charges, which related to money taken from loan applicants' accounts for a funeral fund, but from which the applicants did not benefit. Madikizela-Mandela was sentenced to five years in prison.[18] Shortly after the conviction, she resigned from all leadership positions in the ANC, including her parliamentary seat and the presidency of the ANC Women's League.[19] In July 2004, an appeal judge of the Pretoria High Court ruled that "the crimes were not committed for personal gain". The judge overturned the conviction for theft, but upheld the one for fraud, handing her a three years and six months suspended sentence.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_Madikizela-Mandela

Wondering if Winnie's Winning Ways Worked to Make Maggie, a Terrorist Mandela Make

Hat tip to Pickled Pepper Purchasing Agent Peter Piper Poivre..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Piper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poivre

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


Am sure she is in company of Chingiz Khan, Attila, Hitler and Churchill in HELL .. (hopefully) rusting



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[Torchwood]

Azari, your hatred of everything British is bizarre. I mean at the height of imperial power that was understandable, but nowadays, when we have virtually no influence???

As for whether Maggie was evil, she did not have compassionate beliefs (although apparently kind in private), but by their works shall ye judge them. She did her bit to liberate 300 million eastern Europeans from communist tyranny, and despite economic casualties and a rise in inequality the average Briton is undoubtedly more prosperous than he would otherwise have been. Yes, there was the sinking of the Belgrano - but it was war, the "Argies" started it after all diplomatic attempst had failed, the success of the UK task force was on knife edge. By getting rid of the ghastly military junta and their death squads the Falkland war undoubtedly saved more Argentinian lives than it cost in the long run, but it would have been too much to expect Argentina to be grateful...

She was not likeable, most of those who voted Conservative including me did so because they thought her policies were necessary, but would never have wanted to socialise with her. At the end of her rule she was showing undoubted megalomania, showing the wisdom of the American eight year term limit and the wisdom of her party dumping her. But to consign her to hell with Genghis Khan, Hitler and Stalin (and the Ayatollah Khomeini? ) is not just unfair, it's weird.

We could probably agree that Blair, along with Bush, should be hauled to the Hague and tried as war criminals, however.