Ukraine

[Parodite]

HP, it can't be helped. Of course West has blood on hands, like all nations and empires if you track their histories of centuries. But West has grown up faster than rest of barbarians. Why all refugees now flee to Western Europe, USA, Australia, New Zealand? You know the answer...

[noddy]

I wish I could maintain this fantasy world where China isnt like the Europeans, it goes away a bit when you live with the Chinese

[noddy]

pretty much.

draw a bloody line, its quite simple.

Really. Anywhere you draw a line it will be tested. Goes back to your group not having testicles

culturally we do seem to be in a period that its fashionable to put your testicles inside your pants and not make a big deal of them, this is true.

i believe its a reaction to your group walking around with them out in your hands, constantly fondling them.

.. at this stage Im not quite prepared to declare Europe a ball less zone just because they have leadership which wants that , their isnt much history to support the idea of a pacifist European.

[Heracleum Persicum]

HP, it can't be helped. Of course West has blood on hands, like all nations and empires if you track their histories of centuries. But West has grown up faster than rest of barbarians. Why all refugees now flee to Western Europe, USA, Australia, New Zealand? You know the answer...

Recently I had long discussions with a Dutch friend (he was anti Russia), he too was saying we western europeans are highly civilized and Russians not, I think this narrative from Dutch media.

Those 1 m Syrians who walked from Syria to Germany did not do so because Syria was uncivilized and not free and not democratic but German was all that.

They walked for 2 reason .. one reason was West (NATO) destroyed their country, and , Germany guaranteed a (relative) better life.

In their mind there was no thinking of democracy , freedom of press and gay right etc etc

Because of "collapse" of European birth rate, Europe now in urgent need of immigrants .. every year, there is 250,000 less birth by Ethnic Germans .. going to Germany now is same as being in Turkey, everybody is Turk.

Becoming a Swiss citizen, or German citizen was like landing on the moon .. now all my Iranian classmate from ETH in ZH are Swiss, no question asked.

Europe welcomes "white" immigrants.

re Russia

I think Russia is a victim

Forget Bonaparte

Germans picked up Lenin in Zurich and shipped him to Russia to pull a communist revolution .. communism was made for Britain and Germany but not for a Agriculture based Russia

Russians were tyrannized by professional criminals, Bolsheviks

Hitler was next , killing 28 m Russian and destroying all

After the war , Russia was again enemy # 1

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publicatio ... march-1954

Russia is high civilization in music, art , literature , human sciences etc etc


Re : But West has grown up faster than rest of barbarians

If so how you explain Iraq ? "coalition of willing" .. Brits spearheaded all .. Blair

How you explain Qaddafi ? Qaddafi was best leader for his own people (and best friend with West, Europe) .. now, Libyan Oil is taken neither metered nor (probably) paid for , Turkey too now fighting for "free oil" from Libya .. private Western militia guards the oil wells and installations .. Libya now failed state, thanks to NATO

Europe same Europe as 1900, just learned the art of portraying all in "political correct" way.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Ukraine says any deal with Russia would be put to a referendum

Any historic agreements reached during negotiations would have to be approved by all Ukrainians, President Zelensky says

“I explained to all the negotiating groups: when you talk about all these changes, and they might be historic, we will not go anywhere, we will come to a referendum,” Zelensky told the Ukrainian public broadcaster in an interview.

Legitimate point

This good for all parties

If Ukraine people approve the "historic agreements" in a referendum, nationalist will be disarmed, they would have no case anymore to fight.

If Public votes NO , Russia must accept to "re-negotiate" critical points

In the meantime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LraIWT7iWD4

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

3 ) Human rights .. any Genocide in Russian history ?

HP, you're pulling our leg.

Just in the soviet period we had the mass starvation of the ukraine-- the holomodor -- 10 million people dead by artificial starvation, used by stalin to crush the independence movement.

Then there was the ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide.

Russification was not any cuddlier than Westernization or Sinicization.

[Mr. Perfect]

3 ) Human rights .. any Genocide in Russian history ?

HP, you're pulling our leg.

Just in the soviet period we had the mass starvation of the ukraine-- the holomodor -- 10 million people dead by artificial starvation, used by stalin to crush the independence movement.

Then there was the ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide.

Russification was not any cuddlier than Westernization or Sinicization.

You are fighting the last wars bruh

[Mr. Perfect]

HP, it can't be helped. Of course West has blood on hands, like all nations and empires if you track their histories of centuries. But West has grown up faster than rest of barbarians. Why all refugees now flee to Western Europe, USA, Australia, New Zealand? You know the answer...

Freebies. How long is that going to last

[Mr. Perfect]

[...]
Looks like a lack of brains and testicles among western leftists.

If you insist..

The current NATO problem is that the political process that is required before big balled action even occurs takes way too much time. Especiallv when article 5 is to be evoked, the chance is real that there will not be a consensus among NATO members how and when to act. Whatever the action will be, most likely it will be too late. Putin can snap his fingers for action, NATO needs months. Bureaucrats with spectrum autism in the top brass are the castrates. Maybe they are leftists too, idk.

Nah, when Saddam invaded Kuwait they moved plenty fast to form a coalition. They aren’t doing it now because they have no testicles. You guys are oblivious to the human equation and navel gazing the technicalities

[noddy]

Ukraine says any deal with Russia would be put to a referendum

Any historic agreements reached during negotiations would have to be approved by all Ukrainians, President Zelensky says

“I explained to all the negotiating groups: when you talk about all these changes, and they might be historic, we will not go anywhere, we will come to a referendum,” Zelensky told the Ukrainian public broadcaster in an interview.

Legitimate point

This good for all parties

If Ukraine people approve the "historic agreements" in a referendum, nationalist will be disarmed, they would have no case anymore to fight.

If Public votes NO , Russia must accept to "re-negotiate" critical points

In the meantime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LraIWT7iWD4

so what happens when Putin rejects the petition.

[Heracleum Persicum]

3 ) Human rights .. any Genocide in Russian history ?

HP, you're pulling our leg.

Just in the soviet period we had the mass starvation of the ukraine-- the holomodor -- 10 million people dead by artificial starvation, used by stalin to crush the independence movement.

Then there was the ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide.

Russification was not any cuddlier than Westernization or Sinicization.

"NapLajoieonSteroids" , Genocide has a definition :

the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

Ukraine famine was result of communism idea .. was neither intended, nor deliberate .. in contrary .. the Bolsheviks thought the collective agri will yield more and not less


FYI information , in case you in doubt what a "genocide" is :


The famine in Iran in WW when British emptied the silos for their soldiers and did not let in American wheat come to Iran deliberately killing 10 million Iranians to reduce Iranian population .. that was a deliberate killing and a Genocide


https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780761861676/T ... %20century.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_f ... %80%931919

At least 8–10 million Iranians out of a population of 18–20 million died of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917–1919. The Iranian holocaust was the biggest calamity of World War I and one of the worst genocides of the 20th century, yet it remained concealed for nearly a century.

The Brits did it to Iran .. and I am sure non of readers in this fora knew of this .. but everybody thinks Russians killed 10 m Ukrainians


Same things happened in India .. Churchill caused it


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr


These were done deliberately to kill Indians .. deliberately .. churchill said too many Indians


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... mine-study


"NapLajoieonSteroids" these are Genocides and not communism policy in Ukraine leading to famine, that was not deliberate to kill Ukranians

--

Again , "ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide. " does not define as "Genocide"

Many nations in their history for modernisation and industrialisation moved many, and many died in the process .. those were not deliberate killing

The Tatars and Cossacks were "relocated" for security reason that was normal.

West, including America, when it comes to non Western powers, Russia, China are very generous with term "Genocide" .. although many Western actions that fits the definition of "Genocide" is hidden and omitted in history books

Interesting is, Shah was hiding the 1919 famine from Iranians baby boomers , there was nothing in school-books and media was forbidden to write about it .. Ayatollahs , mad mullahs , brought it to iranian people .. am 100% sure that not even one reader in this fora had heard about it

Imagine Iran had less than 20 m population, and 10 million dead because Brits emptied the cillos and did not let US send food to Iran AND nobody in west heard about it

But everybody shouting HOLOCAUST


So, "NapLajoieonSteroids" , pls name one Russian action that fits the above definition of Genocide .. Ca ne exit pas

[Heracleum Persicum]

Ukraine says any deal with Russia would be put to a referendum

Any historic agreements reached during negotiations would have to be approved by all Ukrainians, President Zelensky says

“I explained to all the negotiating groups: when you talk about all these changes, and they might be historic, we will not go anywhere, we will come to a referendum,” Zelensky told the Ukrainian public broadcaster in an interview.

Legitimate point

This good for all parties

If Ukraine people approve the "historic agreements" in a referendum, nationalist will be disarmed, they would have no case anymore to fight.

If Public votes NO , Russia must accept to "re-negotiate" critical points

In the meantime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LraIWT7iWD4

so what happens when Putin rejects the petition.

.

Putin no dummy, he knows Ukraine will not be calm if population is against the new "security arrangement", he knows this

Meaning in Russian long term interest that Ukraine population agrees with the new arrangement

My guess is , once new setup agreed with the present rulers , there would be a ceasefire and given time for Russia and Ukraine debate and make the case in TV debates to Ukrainian people (also to European nations), maybe 2-3 months debate .. that is when the referendum happens

For Ukraine people to cast an "intelligent" vote , they must know the "pro" and "con" , from Ukrainian perspective , and from Russian perspective.

This way, should vote be NO, the negotiators would know what the sticking point are .. and .. renegotiate those points

You must understand , Russia wants an Ukraine that is same as "Finland" .. Russia not into conquering Ukraine , Russia already too big

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

3 ) Human rights .. any Genocide in Russian history ?

HP, you're pulling our leg.

Just in the soviet period we had the mass starvation of the ukraine-- the holomodor -- 10 million people dead by artificial starvation, used by stalin to crush the independence movement.

Then there was the ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide.

Russification was not any cuddlier than Westernization or Sinicization.

"NapLajoieonSteroids" , Genocide has a definition :

the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

Ukraine famine was result of communism idea .. was neither intended, nor deliberate .. in contrary .. the Bolsheviks thought the collective agri will yield more and not less


FYI information , in case you in doubt what a "genocide" is :


The famine in Iran in WW when British emptied the silos for their soldiers and did not let in American wheat come to Iran deliberately killing 10 million Iranians to reduce Iranian population .. that was a deliberate killing and a Genocide


https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780761861676/T ... %20century.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_f ... %80%931919

At least 8–10 million Iranians out of a population of 18–20 million died of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917–1919. The Iranian holocaust was the biggest calamity of World War I and one of the worst genocides of the 20th century, yet it remained concealed for nearly a century.

The Brits did it to Iran .. and I am sure non of readers in this fora knew of this .. but everybody thinks Russians killed 10 m Ukrainians


Same things happened in India .. Churchill caused it


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr


These were done deliberately to kill Indians .. deliberately .. churchill said too many Indians


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... mine-study


"NapLajoieonSteroids" these are Genocides and not communism policy in Ukraine leading to famine, that was not deliberate to kill Ukranians

--

Again , "ethnic cleansing deportation projects, the tartars are quite adamant that their forced removal from their homelands was an act of genocide. " does not define as "Genocide"

Many nations in their history for modernisation and industrialisation moved many, and many died in the process .. those were not deliberate killing

The Tatars and Cossacks were "relocated" for security reason that was normal.

West, including America, when it comes to non Western powers, Russia, China are very generous with term "Genocide" .. although many Western actions that fits the definition of "Genocide" is hidden and omitted in history books

Interesting is, Shah was hiding the 1919 famine from Iranians baby boomers , there was nothing in school-books and media was forbidden to write about it .. Ayatollahs , mad mullahs , brought it to iranian people .. am 100% sure that not even one reader in this fora had heard about it

Imagine Iran had less than 20 m population, and 10 million dead because Brits emptied the cillos and did not let US send food to Iran AND nobody in west heard about it

But everybody shouting HOLOCAUST


So, "NapLajoieonSteroids" , pls name one Russian action that fits the above definition of Genocide .. Ca ne exit pas

You can have your head in the sand but the ukrainians themselves view it as a genocide and even Raphael Lemkin genocide viewed it as a genocide

Professor of law Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term genocide, stated that the famine was man-made and the Holodomor was a genocide. In his 1953 article "Soviet Genocide in Ukraine", which he presented as a speech in New York City, Lemkin stated that the Holodomor was the third prong of Soviet Russification of Ukraine.[18][19][20]

What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification — the destruction of the Ukrainian nation. ... The third prong of the Soviet plan was aimed at the farmers, the large mass of independent peasants who are the repository of the tradition, folklore and music, the national language and literature, the national spirit, of Ukraine. ... As a Soviet politician Kosior declared in Izvestiia on 2 December 1933, 'Ukrainian nationalism is our chief danger', and it was to eliminate that nationalism, to establish the horrifying uniformity of the Soviet state that the Ukrainian peasantry was sacrificed. ... The crop that year was ample to feed the people and livestock of Ukraine, though it had fallen off somewhat from the previous year, a decrease probably due in large measure to the struggle over collectivization. But a famine was necessary for the Soviet and so they got one to order, by plan, through an unusually high grain allotment to the state as taxes.

Roman Serbyn related Lemkin's view to Article 2 of the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide and summarized his view as such:[21]

As integral components of the same genocidal process, Lemkin speaks of it as having four prongs:

the decimation of the Ukrainian national elites,
the destruction of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church,
the starvation of the Ukrainian farming population, and
its replacement with non-Ukrainians from the RSFSR and elsewhere.
The only dimension missing in Lemkin's excellent analysis is the destruction of the ethnic Ukrainians living in the Russian Republic (RSFSR), of which there were eight million on the eve of the genocide.

Timothy Snyder stated that, before UN adoption of the international convention, the Soviets "made sure that the term genocide, contrary to Lemkin's intentions, excluded political and economic groups." According to Snyder, the Ukrainian famine could be presented as "somehow less genocidal because it targeted a class, kulaks, as well as a nation, Ukraine."[22]: 413 According to Olga Andriewsky, the 2009 rediscovery of Lemkin's unpublished essay and its framing of the Holodomor as merely one episode, along with the emergence of the field of genocide studies, has helped historians re-conceptualize its genocidal nature in a larger history of colonial violence and coercion, quoting Douglas Irvin-Erickson as saying that "all of these were part of a larger pattern. 'The genocide was not that Stalin's regime killed so many people,' as one Lemkin scholar explained, 'but that these individuals were killed with the purpose of destroying the Ukrainian way of life.'"[23][24]

(bolded parts mine)

Are the Ukrainians lying about how they view it? Lemkin doesn't know what he's talking about?

And the only reason it gets disputed at all is because of the bad conscience of a lot of actors who either held up, or were taught by people who held up, the soviets as purveyors of all that is virtuous in this world.

================

If we want to argue that genocide, however well-intentioned, is a mostly nonsense concept, picked up as a cudgel because of its utility and too often used willy-nilly; I won't argue with that.

Neither would I argue against the British or Americans or whoever you want to put in there for X, Y & Z.

But we can't say "these are the rules of the game" then Russia gets some sort of double secret handshake provision where what they did doesn't ever really count.

[Parodite]

[...]
Looks like a lack of brains and testicles among western leftists.

If you insist..

The current NATO problem is that the political process that is required before big balled action even occurs takes way too much time. Especiallv when article 5 is to be evoked, the chance is real that there will not be a consensus among NATO members how and when to act. Whatever the action will be, most likely it will be too late. Putin can snap his fingers for action, NATO needs months. Bureaucrats with spectrum autism in the top brass are the castrates. Maybe they are leftists too, idk.

Nah, when Saddam invaded Kuwait they moved plenty fast to form a coalition. They aren’t doing it now because they have no testicles. You guys are oblivious to the human equation and navel gazing the technicalities

Saddam had no nukes so it was an easy roll.

If no testicles is the main reason and problem, you'd have to add women to the equation. Historically war and peace are male wars and male peace makings. Not just war and peace, all the rest you see around is designed, engineered 98% by males. Also in science and for a long time even in culture males dominate. Politics is also by and large a male activity still. World wide.

Women entering those scenes is a new phenomenon, but the effects are huge. A lot of good stuff, but also tragic side effects like having little clue about some major male realities around them that they cannot fully understand nor fix as a result. Girls Without a Clue like AOC or the ones on "The View" on US mainstream media. GWAC now dominate many HR departments and also EU institutions. They also are a considerable force behind the woke and on-line cancel culture, the male-made global warming cult. With their spiritual grandmothers teaching non-technical psychotic nonsense on universities. Leftist females are more like girls, often confused with little clue about the real and big bad world out there. Who want others (law and police officers) to protect them from bad males on testosteron, instead of learning how to be assertive and not afraid, i.e. grow up.

[noddy]

well, seeing as nobody in this forum, nor the west in general was seriously considered getting turned into pink jelly in a ditch in eastern europe for the Ukrainians, the testicular growth argument is moot.

the interesting bit now is what is the outcome - Azari and Mr P claim the death of the western world and the rise of the new world order, without the west.

i suspect thats wishful thinking, China isnt swapping the consumer spending of the EU and USA for the wonders of Iran and Russia just yet.

they will however exploit the situation to get cheap energy supplies, as they should.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Mr. P already said he would only fight for England. So all this rah-rahing about fighting the border war is just trolling.

[noddy]

every single nation has genocide in its near past - except maybe Iran, they are too busy playing strategic 1000 year games to get involved in this winning/losing short term approach and they cunnigly blame all the bad bits on the Muslims anyway, so its a waste of argument

the british nobility also "genocided" the irish, the scottish, and have long abused middle england as white slaves for various empire building projects - are the white convicts used to build australia evil imperialists or more akin to the black american slaves - really the only difference was the easier integration back into society once the slavery was done, up until that point all the treatment was identical.

some like to be ignorant of the ugly realities of class based european history - their was plenty of killing and suppression for everyone.

[noddy]

Mr. P already said he would only fight for England. So all this rah-rahing about fighting the border war is just trolling.

I doubt Mr P would fight to the death for Los Angeles or New York, I have serious doubts about his true sacrificial love of London.

[noddy]

my prediction, Russia wins, Ukraine gets split up into chunks and Russia remains a shithole blaming everyone else for reasons.

all this bullshit about it being the wests fault that perestroika failed .. what could have happened different ? EU oligarchs instead of Russian ones ? caretaker governments ? thats all recipes for bitterness.

how do you change the temperment of a nation from cynical and depressed into actually expecting good things from government ?

when has that ever happened.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

every single nation has genocide in its near past - except maybe Iran, they are too busy playing strategic 1000 year games to get involved in this winning/losing short term approach and they cunnigly blame all the bad bits on the Muslims anyway, so its a waste of argument

the british nobility also "genocided" the irish, the scottish, and have long abused middle england as white slaves for various empire building projects - are the white convicts used to build australia evil imperialists or more akin to the black american slaves - really the only difference was the easier integration back into society once the slavery was done, up until that point all the treatment was identical.

some like to be ignorant of the ugly realities of class based european history - their was plenty of killing and suppression for everyone.

"Everybody does it" isn't even the main problem to me.

From its inception, it (and its author) has trouble distinguishing between mass conflicts and atrocities, and what that does exactly for sovereignty or minimizing conflict.

"They are all one thing" has a great sentimental weight to it but it tells us a lot less than it ought.

Lemkin grew up obsessed with this stuff but to me it sounds like he abstracted it all out to the point that he could say things like, "a line of blood led from the Roman arena through the gallows of France to the Białystok pogrom."

The Christians formed an illicit college separate from the Romans, the French were fighting two-fronted war from inside and out during that period.

How many times did the north of england attempt to conquer the south?

[Parodite]

well, seeing as nobody in this forum, nor the west in general was seriously considered getting turned into pink jelly in a ditch in eastern europe for the Ukrainians, the testicular growth argument is moot.

the interesting bit now is what is the outcome - Azari and Mr P claim the death of the western world and the rise of the new world order, without the west.

i suspect thats wishful thinking, China isnt swapping the consumer spending of the EU and USA for the wonders of Iran and Russia just yet.

they will however exploit the situation to get cheap energy supplies, as they should.

Indeed. The West dominated also for decades and it didn't prevent other contesticles to make dents into reality either. And nobody is on top forever, not even potentially new big-dicks of Russia+China+Greater Dreaming Iran; if they manage to make their dreams come true. And even then...how long will the dream last?

Aside the future being rather unpredictable in general... too. Amazing New Events are on the Horizon! Or, using Mr P's language: "For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."(1 Thessalonians 5:2) The Destroyer of Dreams and Nightmares.

[noddy]

"Everybody does it" isn't even the main problem to me.

From its inception, it (and its author) has trouble distinguishing between mass conflicts and atrocities, and what that does exactly for sovereignty or minimizing conflict.

"They are all one thing" has a great sentimental weight to it but it tells us a lot less than it ought.

Lemkin grew up obsessed with this stuff but to me it sounds like he abstracted it all out to the point that he could say things like, "a line of blood led from the Roman arena through the gallows of France to the Białystok pogrom."

The Christians formed an illicit college separate from the Romans, the French were fighting two-fronted war from inside and out during that period.

How many times did the north of england attempt to conquer the south?

yeh well, I couldnt take any of that seriously enough to think about it in the first place.

if the Ukrainians did prefer being Russia aligned to European aligned, that would have already happened - aka not blaming them for the genocide.

Russia explicitly attacked them for exactly this reason, blaming NATO expansion - so its idiotically obvious which country Ukraine felt no kinship towards.

none of the ex russian slav countries seem to want to become more russian again, this causes cognitive dissonance in many worldviews apparently.

[Heracleum Persicum]

You can have your head in the sand but the ukrainians themselves view it as a genocide and even


Are the Ukrainians lying about how they view it? Lemkin doesn't know what he's talking about?

And the only reason it gets disputed at all is because of the bad conscience of a lot of actors who either held up, or were taught by people who held up, the soviets as purveyors of all that is virtuous in this world.

================

If we want to argue that genocide, however well-intentioned, is a mostly nonsense concept, picked up as a cudgel because of its utility and too often used willy-nilly; I won't argue with that.

Neither would I argue against the British or Americans or whoever you want to put in there for X, Y & Z.

But we can't say "these are the rules of the game" then Russia gets some sort of double secret handshake provision where what they did doesn't ever really count.

.

NapLajoieonSteroids , Völkermord , in english Genocide, is an 1000 yr old legally defined term, defined also by UN.


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkermord


With all due respect to Ukrainian victims, but what Ukranian themselves say does not change the fact that "Völkermord" is "deliberate intention" to kill a nation, ethnic .. must have the intention to deliberately kill

Communist, Bolsheviks, they thought their economic, social policies will work for the better of people, they were mistaken .. and in the process many people died .. that is no Völkermord.

Same think happened with MAO in China .. millions died in hunger etc in the "great march" .. neither was this Völkermord

AND

What you say validates my point about Western view

We see this now with Western confrontation with China and now Russia

The "elite", "authorities" have closed down all info flow from the other side , RT is outlawed, uTube does not allow Russian posts , etc etc

This leads public to not know what really the issues are and who right who wrong.

That a mistake .. West is not too weak for an intelligent debate in this confrontation, Western Joe must not be kept uninformed

I posted "The Truth About Lying in International Politics with John Mearsheimer" .. explains why keeping Joe in dark backfires down the road

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPe5f5dcrGE&t=1235s

Mearsheimer explains how lying to public to make a case to attack Iraq was a mistake now agreed

We might know again in 10 yrs that same happening now

.

[Mr. Perfect]

Mr. P already said he would only fight for England. So all this rah-rahing about fighting the border war is just trolling.

I doubt Mr P would fight to the death for Los Angeles or New York, I have serious doubts about his true sacrificial love of London.

I will never lift a finger for a western leftist/liberal. I will watch them get invaded on TV and then go have dinner. They can all FOAD for all I care. They are arguably the most detestable human beings in the history of the world.

With England, they’ve been there for us, I’d be there for them out of loyalty. Everyone else I’ll watch you get cast to hell then enjoy refreshments.

[Heracleum Persicum]

every single nation has genocide in its near past - except maybe Iran, they are too busy playing strategic 1000 year games to get involved in this winning/losing short term approach and they cunnigly blame all the bad bits on the Muslims anyway, so its a waste of argument

the british nobility also "genocided" the irish, the scottish, and have long abused middle england as white slaves for various empire building projects - are the white convicts used to build australia evil imperialists or more akin to the black american slaves - really the only difference was the easier integration back into society once the slavery was done, up until that point all the treatment was identical.

some like to be ignorant of the ugly realities of class based european history - their was plenty of killing and suppression for everyone.

noddy , reason there no genocide , Völkermord , in Persian history is not because they were busy with other stuff


If you read Rumi , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi , you will see what Persian civilization is all about .. it is all "Humanität"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanity_(virtue)


That is how Persia kept the empire , from China to North Africa , uninterrupted for 1000 yrs, in peace ..

Pomegranates did not try to force their system on others .. all provinces in empire had their own king, their own religion , their own culture


The Golden Age of Israel was when part of Persian empire


This was not so with others

Hellenic democracies were only for "citizens" and not for slaves .. their societies were a slave based free labour economy

Not so Persian ..